Slack archive

general-en

Month: 2017-06

2017-06-02

pofeng 21:42:52
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ggm 22:30:21
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2017-06-04

mitsunchieh 01:36:08
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2017-06-08

manish 14:38:09
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2017-06-09

patcon 11:15:58
FYI, Colin Megill (pol.is) and Audrey are going to be livestreamed from Personal Democracy Forum tomorrow (Friday) morning at 9:15-10am ET! :)

http://stream.civichall.org/
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2017-06-13

lizbarry 02:55:32
Hi folks, FYI I invited the ~15 or so folks who came up to Colin, Audrey, @ttcat and myself after our presentation on Friday to join the conversation here.
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mark 03:13:15
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thebestsophist 05:31:27
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2017-06-14

devin 00:01:57
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devin 00:03:16
Hi everyone. I'm really looking forward to working with others to bring g0v innovations to New York City!
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clkao 00:35:33
howdy!
devin 00:40:45
I've been following you all since Liz posted her article on Civist. I met Audrey and TTCat at Personal Democracy Forum in NYC.
devin 00:40:58
Seems you all have figured out the next step for democracy. πŸ™‚
devin 00:41:39
Now I'm hoping to bring attention to your efforts and how we can implement them in NYC by running for office in NYC.
devin 00:41:49
More about my campaign is here: votedevin.com
patcon 04:35:13
Oh! Someone told me about your campaign months ago, but I didn't realize you were the same Devin ;)
devin 04:36:27
You're the patcon who participated on a few of my polis's?
patcon 04:37:06
Haha yes
devin 04:37:16
Nice. How did you find us?
patcon 04:38:26
I don't recall, maybe Colin or @aaronwytze mentioned you. But a friend and I have been doing vtaiwan research for Toronto: beta.hackfoldr.org/vkanata
patcon 04:39:56
Are you using anything like the ORID process, or more as a general survey tool? So curious what your learning have been while using it..! :)
devin 05:21:28
I have to look at this ORID thing.
devin 05:21:46
I've been operating as a candidate for office - not a civil society group.
devin 05:22:21
I'm really excited about emerging efforts in NYC to get a civil society group growing so someone else can drive.
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devin 05:23:03
I want to be the advocate and instrument of the system.
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devin 05:23:12
My campaign is a call to get that civil society stuff going.
devin 05:23:34
And to introduce the ideas to NYCers more broadly.
ttcat 12:22:32
hi @devin meet @hsiao-a , g0v@US West hackathon organizer
hsiao-a 12:22:38
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thebestsophist 13:26:54
πŸ‘‹πŸΌ hiya everyone, I’m one of the folks @lizbarry invited and am a technologist/activist and independent researcher on deliberative democracy in DC. super excited to be here with a lot of names I recognize
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devin 13:29:11
Hi @hsiao-a. Are you on the US west coast? I'll be in Portland (for Open Source Bridge Conference) and LA next week.
ttcat 14:19:25
@devin he based in NYC πŸ˜›
ttcat 14:21:04
@devin http://votedevin.com/2017/03/27/feedback-on-defining-municipalism/ the girl on right side is my friend!!

Devin for Public Advocate

Help us define β€œmunicipalism”.

Tell us what β€œmunicipalism” means to you. Learn more on the topic page.

πŸ‘©β€β€οΈβ€πŸ‘© 1 😴 1
ttcat 14:21:17
hey @thebestsophist ~
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hsiao-a 18:48:46
Hi @devin yes I am in NYC; I think ttcat meant to say "east" coast πŸ˜… and hi @thebestsophist . I am a local g0v organizer and would love to help out translating/transitioning any g0v ideas to the City!
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hsiao-a 19:35:03
@devin are you on the ballots this year?
lizbarry 19:38:19
Hi!!!
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devin 22:51:13
@hsiao-a great that you're in NYC. We can definitely use your help! I'll send you some of our most up to date materials about the campaign. We're integrating a lot of existing open source to provide a coherent web app for a "people's process". You can see the beginning of that here: proposals.votedevin.com - where we integrated Polis and Consul (Madrid's crowdsource proposal app) together by creating a "Conversations" plugin that allows for Polis embeds.
devin 22:51:27
To answer your question about ballot access:\
devin 22:51:56
I'm running with the Libertarian Party and already won the primary, but I'll still need to petition for ballot access.
devin 22:52:34
Petitioning for our party legally begins July 15 and goes into late August. It will require a lot of effort 10,000+ signatures but it's possible.
hsiao-a 22:52:48
Awesome! Congrats on winning the nomination. I was a bit worried there when I didn't see your name on the list of candidates in Gotham Gazette
devin 22:52:51
I definitely hope to get "participatory democracy" on the ballot in November.
devin 22:53:26
Yes I'll be on future lists. Just was a little late getting my paperwork in.
devin 22:54:16
We also have a Livestream studio in downtown Brooklyn we can use.
devin 22:54:41
And a cast of animated characters that will make our process seem less intimidating. πŸ™‚
hsiao-a 22:54:43
Cool, I'd love to help out anywhere we can. I can start out by delivering you some signatures from our Taiwanese American community
devin 22:55:08
That would be amazing. Where in NYC are you located?
hsiao-a 22:55:16
I am in Hell's Kitchen
devin 22:55:58
Fantastic.
devin 22:59:22
Here's an unfinished version of our proposed 7-step process.
infographic I-01-01 (1).jpg
hsiao-a 23:00:02
great. I love you have designer on staff lol
devin 23:00:16
And here's an unfinished version of how the Livestream show fits with step 1 and 2 of the process.
4-02.jpg
devin 23:01:09
Ha no staff. I'm just pretty good at coordinating remote work.
hsiao-a 23:12:22
Love it. vTaiwan, as mentioned in Audrey's talk, is open source too in case you need something like that
devin 23:16:43
Yes we're an all open source operation too. And I work in nonprofit open source software too. So open source all the way. πŸ™‚
devin 23:17:25
Once we can get a few big cities collaborating on software together I think this entire movement will grow very quickly.
hsiao-a 23:23:18
how are you involving beta.nyc, CfA or Civic Hall in your campaign?
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2017-06-15

devin 01:47:41
Well I haven't officially announced my candidacy yet.
devin 01:47:54
I'm waiting for the IRS to issue me an EIN so I can collect donations first.
devin 01:48:13
There was been some bug preventing them for doing it. Hopefully by the end of the week it'll be resolved.
devin 01:48:47
But I've been hoping and continue to hope that a group related to/within BetaNYC emerges to advance the Taiwanese model
devin 01:48:59
and then I could work with them as a peer.
devin 01:50:12
I have to be careful not to turn this process into something people only associate with my campaign.
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devin 01:50:27
Doing so could undermine the process's long term success.
devin 01:51:11
That said - I plan to fund a part-time facilitator role who could help with in person events and getting a group going.
devin 01:51:21
Or at least - supporting an emerging group.
devin 01:51:31
If you know anyone who might be good at that - please let me know.
lizbarry 04:09:47
It is also my interest to support and grow a group of "nobody" facilitators working in the English language generally, and in NYC specifically. BetaNYC would be a good local home for this community, but before we even start there i've been connecting people directly with this g0v slack.
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Slackbot 04:09:47
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patcon 22:30:55
cc @theobass
patcon 22:38:22
So excited by this! We've been speaking with public consultation professionals in Toronto about the vTaiwan process: the city's new open data supervisor, denis carr, is really interested and has set up meetings for us. @biancawylie, a prominent member of the public consultation community in the city is also excited about possibilities.

Basically, I'm so incredibly excited by this whole conversation :)

(Have started a new job that means this has been backburner'd a bit until I was sure I could do it justice. But I could bring it frontrunner again!)

willing to travel to NYC if I have a couch to crash on.
patcon 22:39:21
Also, I am really glad to see you friendly english visualization @devin! We totally need those!
devin 22:45:19
Great me too!
devin 22:45:30
I have two great couches.
devin 22:45:34
Each with their unique charms.
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patcon 22:47:53
I will admit that I'm seeing some features possibly missing from the visuals, that had impressed me as fairly important. This mostly related to O in ORID and that first fact-finding phase (definitions and objective facts) being distinct from opinion-gathering phase. I understand that separation to be for fairly established reasons.

From conversation with @theobass, I might assume he would flag the same important bit as lacking emphasis in the visuals? (Theo did the digital democracy report with a small vtainwan case-study. He also has a deep dive vtaiwan case study coming out soon, which I would maybe suggest waiting on, before finalizing releases on process :) it is so so chock full of good stuff!)
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patcon 22:48:07
And also: YAAAAAAY!!
patcon 22:49:26
Oh man, I need to start scouting negabus tickets! Would be so fun to geek out on this!
patcon 22:50:02
*Megabus: Arch revil of negabus
devin 23:03:01
Cool. I'm back in NYC on the 27th so sometime thereafter would work.
devin 23:03:53
As for the ORID/fact-finding phase - yes I agree.
devin 23:04:09
And I'd like to know more.
devin: would you be down for a video chat sometime? :)
sure
devin 23:05:49
Is there a democratic process to create a rough idea of the topic.
devin 23:05:58
?
hsiao-a 23:22:13
count me in for the NYC geek-out session! πŸ‘
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devin 23:36:04
Great.
devin 23:36:14
I got on a call and will finish my question/thought re:ORID

2017-06-16

devin 00:14:56
Okay - so yes, how do we do the fact-finding phase?
devin 00:15:23
Is there a public poll-type process to come up with the rough idea of a topic and then an investigation into how to frame it?
devin 00:16:22
Or maybe there is some other way to rank general/rough topics?
lizbarry 04:31:00
re: NYC geek out session, I'd like look to after the 4th of July long weekend so that i can be there :smile:
lizbarry 04:34:23
How about sometime the week of July 10th through the 15th?
lizbarry: I'm currently unbooked for those days! Could do that.
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lizbarry 04:55:41
Regarding the fact-finding phase, it would be great to hear from @au.
- is there a fact-finding phase?
- if so, does it happen before g0v facilitators meet individually with stakeholders? Does a set of facts emerge from individual meetings with stakeholders?
- do the stakeholders each offer their own set of relevant facts?
- Does the vTaiwan process for each topic still involve the creation of a lexicon to avoid semantic arguments?

thank you in advance Audrey!
ttcat 12:01:55
@devin some people are working on crowdsourcing fact check system and adopt to a chat bot on LINE (a popular mobile messenger like whasapp in Aisa)
ttcat 12:02:36
ref: https://cofacts.g0v.tw/
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ttcat 12:04:23
similar experiment that people from g0v have tried before is this one: https://newshelper.g0v.tw/ an browser extension to mark certain links
au 13:16:21
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ael 13:28:39
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lizbarry 21:16:55
@anreg
anreg 21:16:57
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devin 23:14:29
Let me clarify my question.
devin 23:14:49
I'm wondering how you determine the issue to be tackled.
devin 23:15:14
How do you come up with the issue and then how do you come up with the framing of it?

2017-06-17

au 00:49:33
on vTaiwan, the issue is brought to weekly meetups by ministries, or suggested at weekly meetups to ministries
au 00:49:57
either way it need to relate to digital economy in some way, and both ministries and meetup participants need to agree to tackle it.
au 00:52:10
the initial framing is helped by the Regulatory Reform Center, a unit in National Development Council
patcon 01:28:56
@devin it's a doozey (and so I don't suggest it lightly), but this video was the thing that was most clarifying of vTaiwan (and g0v) process, at least prior to reading @theobass's draft case study: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8tc_5bM0zSM

YouTube

Fork the Government @ CES

devin 01:46:24
Wow that really is a doozy. 4+ hours!
au 01:47:01
there’s a transcript though
au 01:47:46
https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Fork-the-government-CES-2WkwonjChbKbl1qMVLGJW (would be great if you can help editing as you watch it)

Dropbox Paper

Fork the government @ CES

<https://youtu.be/8tc_5bM0zSM> Host: OK, good afternoon to everybody. My name is Giovanni Allegretti.

au: we can host an viewing + editing transcript party
Yay for transcripts! Thanks. And yes Liz I agree this is good fodder for an event.
ok i guess we have to have an event! I offer to host, will use Matt's projector -- what do you think?
alternative to me coming down is to somehow do a dual location thing in two places?

was originally thinking about a watch+discuss event in toronto, but open to whatever.

also, i really do want so badly to come visit NYC, so i'm torn in suggesting the dual event thing πŸ˜›
That's possible.
I do have a couch and more work tends to get done quicker in person.
created #july-nyc-hangout for discussion/planning
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au 01:48:54
let me know if you’d like an editable invite sent to an email somewhere
au 01:57:17
re the fact-finding process, it differs by case. one technique is a series preparatory meetings cumulating on a shared digital whiteboard. click β€œBoard” in https://pdis.nat.gov.tw/#/how-we-work/tracks to see how it works

pdis.nat.gov.tw

PDIS β€” Public Digital Innovation Space

We incubate and facilitate public digital innovation and service.

au 01:57:27
it’s a variation of this English material: https://realtimeboard.com/blog/post-it-notes-problem-solving-part-1/

RealtimeBoard Blog

Step-by-Step Guide: How to Use Post-It Notes for Problem Solving

Problem solving with online post-it notes basing on the methods described in the David Straker's book: Post-up, Swap Sort, Top-Down Tree, Information Map.

au 01:59:20
in other cases it was simply a drop-box where relevant links to facts can be sent and reviewed and added to a hackfoldr, but still reviewed and collected in f2f weekly meetups
lizbarry 02:31:10
ok @au -- thank you very much for joining in here. Based on this information and what we discussed in-person last week, I'm going to hazard a short answer to Devin's questions, please jump in to correct me if i'm wrong:
lizbarry 02:31:27
* "how do you determine the issue to be tackled?" -- i'm assuming this is a prioritization question. There is a standing weekly meeting in the well-equipped Information Center of the Ministry of Finance. At this meeting, _either_ government ministries (agencies) themselves can identify a difficult issue with an online aspect that requires cross-ministry coordination to address. _Or_, citizens can file a petition, and with enough support (5000 signatures) it will automatically become a topic.
lizbarry 02:31:30
* "how do you determine the framing of it?" -- in person, during the pre-meetings with stakeholders facilitated by trained g0v nobodies.
devin 02:43:20
Thanks @au and @liz. That's what I was thinking - govt can request a topic or it can bubble up from petitioning.
devin: i also have a pile of detailed notes from @au on the petition staffing within each ministry and a more elaborate schedule. There's a monthly meeting as well, + Monday meetings, a "Policy Lab Friday", and a time when @au brings the consensus items resulting from a poll to the premier. I'm not adding this all into this convo because clearly as we get started over here it's happening without government assistance. I will write it up shortly tho.
but there is a takeaway, which is that each poll topic is getting a lot of hours of human support not only from g0v facilitators, but also from ministry staff who naturally have deep domain expertise
devin 02:44:07
How do you identify "stakeholders" before you've begun using Polis?
devin: i have this exact same question, and i don't know!
we ask ministries to tally stakeholders from academia, media, private and voluntary sectors; then invite the weekly meetup to add to it; then send rolling-wave surveys so each identified stakeholder can recommend themselves.
Thanks @au!!! This is super information. Has anyone ever estimated the # of ministry staff hours that go into setting up a poll, and the # of g0v facilitator hours for running and moderating the poll?
not as far as I know. that also depend heavily on the complexity of the case. I’d say it’s in the range of 10s of hours for both sides for smaller cases and 100s in slightly more complex cases.
planspark 13:54:16
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planspark 15:46:39
Hi, I'm the founder and CEO of Intellitics, Inc., a digital engagement consultancy based in San JosΓ©, CA (USA). A few years ago, we launched ParticipateDB, an open online catalogue for digital engagement tools and services. We are getting ready to launch a global practitioner survey to help us better understand how technology is shaping community engagement and public participation around the world. We are working with a number of international partners to help us reach a global audience. We are still missing contacts in Asia who could help get the word out and share the survey with their networks. If you know people who might be interested in this project (whether in Taiwan or elsewhere in Asia), I would be very happy to connect. Thanks!
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planspark 15:48:16
Btw, here's the entry on Polis to give you an idea how ParticipateDB is structured (aims to list not only the tools themselves but also provide additional resources that show how the tool is applied in practice): http://www.participatedb.com/tools/331

2017-06-19

anreg 07:52:14
Hi @planspark i’m in nyc working with various grass roots org as well as one we started, Coalition For A New Democracy. When do you expect to finish your survey and publish the results? Keen if there could be some learnings applicable to issues we are only in the early stages of tackling. Thx!
patcon 11:37:00
@planspark ohai! This might be up your alley: https://github.com/canada-ca/welcome/issues/20

I'm also curious to know how participateDB differentiates itself from participedia. Is there enough alignment to work together or build a common dataset of tools/orgs/cases?

(Disclaimer: participedia went a long way to winning me over in that linked thread, with their new open source platform πŸ™‚ )

GitHub

Can you help us make a list of open source engagement tools? / Pouvez-vous nous aider Γ  dresser une liste des outils de mobilisation provenant de sources ouvertes? Β· Issue #20 Β· canada-ca/welcome

(le français suit...) The public engagement team at Privy Council Office, along with our friends and colleagues in the Consultations Community of Practice, need your help! We want to make a list of...

oops, just realized i typo'd and mis-mentioned y'all in this tweet a few days ago πŸ˜•
https://twitter.com/patconnolly/status/875080537714675712
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2017-06-20

colinmegill 10:50:45
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lizbarry 20:19:46
Well @patcon, as @devin says we'd be psyched to have you in NYC but of course we know that's a lot of schlepp for you. To match Devin's couch, let me add that I have a kitchen and can feed a small event if we host it at my house.
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theobass 23:16:32
Fascinating discussion above... just joining.

I'm working on a much longer vTaiwan case study (we had so much useful material including content from interviews with Audrey, cl and Colin that I couldn't fit in the report!) ... i'll share it here soon.

@lizbarry could i run it past you before it's published ? πŸ™‚
thebestsophist 2017-06-20 23:21:14
oooh…I’ve been spending the last year doing similar research on the historical+cultural contexts, would love to see what you’re working on, too
Awesome. Will share a draft with you now πŸ™‚
I'd LOVE to read it @theobass
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clkao 23:25:59
so is anyone coming to civictechfest.org in Sep?
thebestsophist 2017-06-20 23:30:35
I sooo wish I was…I maxed out my conference travel this year before learning about it 😭
Would love love LOVE to, but def outside my budget capacity these days
phew, it looks like i _might_ have support to come to southeast china / HK in August and November, and will aim to swing through Taipei at one of those times.
JEALOUS EMOJI
Me πŸ™‚
... still in the process of persuading my boss. Will find out soon πŸ™‚
Me. πŸ˜„

2017-06-21

canadian_aaron 16:13:51
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2017-06-22

2017-06-23

derekhoward 11:59:51
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2017-06-27