Month: 2018-09


theobass 22:06:48
Hi <!channel>. I'm reaching to talk about GDPR. At Nesta (a charity i work at in the UK) we're gearing up to run a few pilots over the next few months and i wondered if anyone has thought about data protection and vTaiwan?

We've been thinking a lot about a new generation of anonymous participation tools with|, but this is still very experimental and far from being available to integrate into other tools.

Also vTaiwan makes use of multiple engagement tools and websites, which makes it a more complex task than usual. I'm currently talking with our legal team and with Colin about how we make| more compliant. I'll keep everybody up to date with what we learn.
patcon 22:19:27
Can't speak too much on this, but just wanted to voice that i feel the anonymization of all outputs in traditional government consultation processes, this feels like a hallmark of how these processes fail us as social creatures. Nudging toward defaults of anonymity would feel like a loss, if that's the implication. (I'm not versed on GDPR :) )
At PDIS, we’re hosting| partly due to GDPR (PIPA in Taiwan) concerns as we can more reasonably handle data requests compared to hosting on Heroku. we are also porting various tools such as hackmd and etherpad onto the secure-and-private-by-design| platform for the same reason to facilitate data requests. We have a rudimentary survey app but Typeform and Slido are GDPR-aware and so we’re still using these two external tools.
dzn 20:14:00
On a slightly unrelated note. I was recently chatting with some people from ICANN and they are really struggling with GDPR. Not being able to gather personal data makes it really difficult for them to do their job of identifying DNS abuses. Hadn’t thought of that angle before.
dzn 20:15:44
“ICANN is designed to work as a "multi-stakeholder" decision-making model where everyone impacted gets a say in the solution, so the suggestion that just governments would decide on an accreditation model was greeted with some scorn”... my favorite part of the article.
theobass 00:33:39
Hey @patcon :slightly_smiling_face:

The idea is to let people collect 'attributes' about themselves (e.g. 'resident of Toronto', 'over 18' etc.)... so to some degree people will be 'authenticated but anonymous' if they wish.

DECODE is testing this on Decidim.Barcelona, they have 30k active users and people have raised concerns about petitions as you need to provide your address to vote. This means any new government will have access to everyone's voting records.

I still hear your point though. We don't yet know how an attribute based system will affect participation behaviour in more deliberative online spaces, this is a live research question!

@au and @darshana thanks so much for your responses these were super helpful / interesting


patcon 13:30:41
@dotoriworks and I gave this presentation earlier tonight at Civic Tech Toronto:

I'll link it into the gdrive later, and maybe share the video too :) (and also add attributions on photos :heart:)
dzn 20:40:57
I really like the ‘How it works’ slides!
patcon 07:30:02
thanks! note that we kinda took liberties with the big flowchart in slide 20, changing a few things:

- changed| step "online deliberation" to "opinion mapping". we didn't feel "deliberation" best reflected what| was doing -- no back, and forth like in f2f. more "mapping" than "deliberation" there, in our humble sense

- changed "reflection stage" to "deliberation stage". this felt like a more representative term for the face-to-face stakeholder deliberations. we also worries that "reflection stage" conflated with "R" in ORID in a confusing way, when we wanted to introduce both concepts. the R from ORID seemed to be more prominently introduced during|, which was not in the "reflection stage" in the prior version of the flowchart.

we're def curious about any feedback, so pls do push back if we rolled back something that was arrived at with firm intention :heart: (this was def on our todo list to followup on!)


patcon 11:51:27
Just realized that this rad apolitical article links to the hackfoldr for the NYC workshop:

Let's make the first link in the hackfoldr (which auto-loads) something with google analytics so we know how much traffic it's getting? I can set up something and share analytic account access with other google accounts.


Meet the network tearing down walls between departments in Taiwan | Apolitical

Public servants are told time and time again — often in articles on Apolitical — that collaboration is the key to innovation. But the siloes and rivalries baked into the departmental system too often prevent civil servants from working with their neighbours. It’s a problem many governments are grappling with. Now, Taiwan may have found a solution. The Public Digital Innovation Space (PDIS), an innovation...

patcon 11:53:37
speaking of which, do we have any GA properties/accounts floating around already? Not seeing anything in or source code, nor our service inventory doc... but i've def been neglecting it a bit :slightly_smiling_face:

cc: @devin
lizbarry 07:19:31
Not that I know of!


lukasz 22:14:18
@lukasz has joined the channel


theobass 01:09:15
I ran a workshop today on collective intelligence in democracy. We used|, an open source tool for crowdsourcing ideas and quickly ranking as a group, to understand the biggest challenges facing the field. It provided really good breadth of ideas, but the key lesson was people needed lots of time to reflect and vote (15 minutes was nowhere near enough) -- the same way| works much better over several days / weeks.

Thought it might also be worth sharing here to tap the collective mind of the group :brain: :writing_hand:

All Our Ideas

What do you think is the most important barrier facing collective intelligence in democracy/governance?

All Our Ideas is a platform that enables groups to collect and prioritize ideas in a transparent, democratic, and bottom-up way. It’s a suggestion box for the digital age.

lizbarry 07:18:57
Thank you @theobass!!!


alexjay 21:56:18
Hey all! Putting together a workshop over in Toronto here with PDIS, with a lot of inspo from the NYC workshop back in June
itsmisscs 21:57:06
I’ve got an email for you @dotoriworks
itsmisscs 21:57:36
there’s also #facilitation-fest-nyc which is where we organized most of the other one. all organizers, folks from PDIS, and some other peeps are there
alexjay 21:58:34
I'll hop on over to scroll through! Thank you for the reminder. I'm actually in the thread, just realised
itsmisscs 21:58:57
there’s not much scroll through…there’s no archive of this slack any more :scream_cat:
alexjay 22:00:01
ohh understood now. no worries! I'll keep an eye out for the email and start putting together a doc our end
itsmisscs 21:57:53
sadly no more record of the chat
itsmisscs 21:57:54