Month: 2018-01



patcon 01:55:48
<!here> re: doing an all-day vnetwork workday tomorrow (friday). how about we choose a place, and also open up an internet video portal at we can all just chime in with availability, and (if helpful) when we plan to drop in (irl or virual)? who's interested?

also: what are our options for in-person locations, given the bad weather? liz's place? new lab?

Video conversations with up to 4 people for free - no login, no downloads. Create a video room. Share the link. Appear together. Try it now at <>

patcon 01:57:56
i'm getting into NYC by bus at 7:30am, so barring any delays, i'm down to start at 9:30am (i'm coming into NYC with western bearing, so should dodge worst of it)
devin 04:59:26
I could pop into a conference sometime tomorrow. On west coast time so it'd probably be mid-late afternoon in NYC.
katenicholson 13:00:48
I can say hi for a little in afternoon (remote). Feel free to ping me if there’s a good time after you take lunch!
katenicholson 05:42:20
hey guys - how can i find you / don’t see you on appearin / are you finished?
katenicholson 05:43:29
patcon 10:46:15
Awww, I'm so sorry, @katehnicholson! I misunderstood another convo and thought that a workday today had been floated, but that was for next week. I realized my confusion after my bus arrived this morning, but then fell asleep without correcting...! I hope you didn't rearrange anything, but if you did, I totally apologise :)
katenicholson 12:33:21
@patcon no worries at all— it was a lonely time in the room, but I survived. ;].Have a good weekend.
lizbarry 07:06:09
actually happening tomorrow!
katenicholson 08:02:57
@lizbarry aye just seeing this. Was out of city today, am round a bit now if you are still at it.




patcon 00:57:29
this strikes me as a similar philosophy to how vtaiwan process engages with gov process:

Nieman Lab

It’s not “citizen journalism,” but it is “citizens taking notes at public meetings with no reporters around”

Chicago's City Bureau is betting on local residents doing this sort of low-key not-quite-journalism at meetings, and now it's expanding the model to Detroit.

patcon 01:00:49
:rocket: *Re: vNetwork Hangout Today*

heyo! <!here> are notes from any convos at New Lab today:

(anyone is free to drop by, as we'll be here all day -- also we'll try to leave the video line open whenever we're sitting:

2018-01-12 vNetwork hangout - HackMD

Video conversations with up to 4 people for free - no login, no downloads. Create a video room. Share the link. Appear together. Try it now at <>

lizbarry 01:05:44
app links from David Wisner in Greece to help understand the long-established parliamentary tradition in the west

Magic Gavel® Basic ·

Our App Description Magic Gavel Basic is a meeting essentials tool developed by Simpalm. The App helps to drive a meeting, whether you are the president, officer, director, trustee, delegate, member, attorney or advisor. This platform support and follows the … Continue reading →


Parliamentary Procedure-Robert Rules and Top News

Mac Apps, Mac App Store, iPad, iPhone and iPod touch app store listings, news, and price drops

lizbarry 02:30:33
hey vNetwork does anyone know Anasuya Sengupta of ? check out that massive Octavia Butler quote @itsmisscs
itsmisscs 08:19:00
Shuttleworth funded!!
itsmisscs 08:19:52
I also really like how they put up their research online. Need to do this.
itsmisscs 04:29:06
hello @lizbarry @patcon @darshana, are y’all still at New Lab?
dzn 04:29:48
Hey! @lizbarry and @patcon have stepped out to bring lunch. I am at New Lab!
itsmisscs 04:32:11
I just got back to my grandmas. far too rainy to be at the beach.
lizbarry 05:02:45
it's rainy here too!
itsmisscs 05:19:28
we’re connected via weather!
itsmisscs 04:31:24
You should go say hi to Buoy lol
itsmisscs 04:31:31
I shall introduce you some time soon
patcon 05:49:57
@itsmisscs we are back and on| btw!
itsmisscs 07:05:55
was on some calls talking through my d&amp;s proposal
devin 07:37:59
Are you all still on the call?
katenicholson 08:03:48
Yeah ping me if you’re all still at it too, am around for a little now. Otherwise Sorry to miss the fun today!!
patcon 09:23:35
@devin @katehnicholson hey guys (and anyone else who catches this) -- we (@darshana, @lizbarry, me) left new lab right around 6:30, so we just missed you :disappointed:

but we were just talking now, and realized that we owe you an apology. We realized that we sent a calendar invite out of band, just among us (kinda thinking it would be just for an article we're working on). but in retro, we should make conscious effort to make sure that when we meet up, it's always an open invite.

*tl;dr -- we did it wrong, and we'll be better next time :)*
devin 14:27:42
I appreciate this. Activist groups tend to get clique-y and that dynamic makes growth hard. Committing to openness and explicit outreach for v-related gatherings (as opposed to cc stuff which you should do with as you please) is something I personally would really appreciate.
patcon 23:45:51
Trye say. I appreciate you, devin!
patcon 09:23:41
patcon 09:35:11
we were thinking about doing another drop-in session next friday (i'll be back in toronto, but will just in|
patcon 09:35:41
Who <!here> would be interested in getting together (in-person or online) in some capacity on that day?
katenicholson 09:52:34
@patcon hey no worries at all. i should be able to say hello next week, can’t commit to in person at this moment, but will try to swing it if i can!
patcon 10:01:27
@katehnicholson cool! going to try to make sure we go into evening too, so daytime work people can still join or maybe make dinner together -- so save the evening!
devin 14:29:08
I'd like to give a report-back on work related to and discuss how it could (or could not) fit into this effort, so when you have scheduled a time to chat please let me know. thx
patcon 08:34:20
I'm down. options that come to mind:
- video call and record for others
- schedule something that works for all (when2meet?)
- short presentation at proghacknight tomorrow (still record for those not present?)
- present during all-day newlab meeting on friday (liz posting deets now)


patcon 08:15:44
hey @katehnicholson, might you have a github handle to share? (want to add you to github org)
katenicholson 09:04:06
@patcon it’s katehnicholson (and very inactive) :]
lizbarry 08:38:03
Looking ahead to the end of the week, this Friday Jan 19 will be another all day worksession in #vnyc 's New Lab and all are invited. We will open up a video link for folks not in NYC. More details soon, but probably 11-ish to start, for lunch we can order in food or bring a lunch, head out at 5pm and i am planning to be able to cook an dinner for everyone back at my williamsburg place which is a 25 minute walk away. Thanks @patcon for setting up the notes! Link to all vNetwork notes so far here:
itsmisscs 09:37:20
@patcon saw your post about archiving :(( kinda dangerous/sad. what do you think about IRC instance for historical archive?
patcon 23:11:28
yeah, i'm bummed too!
patcon 23:12:15
could bridge to a riot instance... which is a nice bonus in that their rooms can be public/private/world-searchable/blah blah lots of options
itsmisscs 23:26:36
ooo haven’t heard of riot
itsmisscs 23:27:13
oh i like!
itsmisscs 23:27:20
own your own data…open source
patcon 06:34:45
itsmisscs 09:37:40
or vnetwork discourse for important conversations and slack for chatter


patcon 09:30:48

no livestream yet, but notes here: <>

itsmisscs 10:11:39
so nice to see everyone!!!!
itsmisscs 10:11:52
sorry i can’t video so well but i’m :ear::skin-tone-5:
itsmisscs 10:11:55
itsmisscs 10:12:12
@lizbarry cute sweater/top :heart_eyes:
lizbarry 23:57:03
tomorrow at 9:30AM ET David Wisner (based at a Democracy institute in Greece) has offered to have a call and go over the basics of classic parliamentary procedure. He knows we (the larger we meaning g0v and vNetwork etc) are working on new forms of deliberation and wants to help us understand how it has been so that we can build on the years of work in deliberative democracy to make something really good. I don't want this to be a huge call, but if one or two people are interested in spending an hour "in class" tomorrow please let me know. either way, you can count on me to take superb notes and share.
patcon 00:23:07
Don't count me for a spot, as I am happy to just cowork with liz and eavesdrop without taking up an official place :)
katenicholson 01:03:50
Super cool, look fwd to notes!
lizbarry 00:35:59
lovely person.
patcon 01:38:56
overheard some really great insights about goals of parliamentary process and roberts rules (ie. they are ALSO for creating space for minority opinions!)

for future ref, linked notes through here:
lizbarry 22:36:12
he sent other links which i will post here and also add to the meeting notes
This is the ICONS project at the University of Maryland. I have been watching them for several years now, and I have occasionally used their book in my course on diplomacy.. The program has really grown. Navigate here for a look at the software they have developed for their simulations.
Some resources on the site of the National Association of Parliamentarians.
2003 article on what it is to be the Senate Parliamentarian.


patcon 00:27:28
@darshana @itsmisscs @lizbarry for that RightsCon proposal we submitted way back when: still not announced if we're accepted, but *travel assistance deadline is ~TODAY~ FRIDAY*

Details in email message. (See link in agenda of our Jan 12 meeting:


Meeting Notes on vNetwork: Task Tracker

in Resources on vNetwork: Task Tracker

patcon 00:28:45
Should we also investigate submitting for @au?
patcon 00:29:57
(Also, my friend @bianca has already heard back that she's NOT accepted, so we've apparently made it through some sort of elimination round already :slightly_smiling_face: )
dzn 12:12:27
we should investigate submitting for travel grant! Didn’t see link to details in trello or doc. Can you post please. I hope its not too extensive
itsmisscs 22:45:12
yes, let’s apply please for travel assistance!!
itsmisscs 22:45:34
great news that we’re through to another round. how exciting.
patcon 00:43:15
Yay! this woman just joined #vtaiwan channel and I'm so stoked about that! Her research seems sooooo cool and relevant!
Someone (across chat bridge) 02:03:38
@patrick.c.connolly_br has joined the channel
patcon 02:04:16
ok, moment of truth (test edit)
@null 02:04:40
yay! works on betanyc #vnetwork channel!

@null 02:05:04
also works in prog hack night #vnetwork!

@null 02:05:28
aaaaaand civic tech toronto's #vnetwork channel :wink:

@null 02:08:07
@patcon set the channel topic: This channel is BRIDGED. Project dashboard:

@null 02:08:20
@patcon set the channel topic: This channel is BRIDGED. Project dashboard:

@null 02:08:31
@patcon set the channel topic: This channel is BRIDGED. Project dashboard:

patcon 02:09:04
is sorry for the setup noise :grimacing:
@null 02:22:16

@null 02:22:52

patcon 02:25:40
ok, so these things are supposed to relay edits and deletes through the bridge, but it seems that I've found a bug: when it's more than just between two slack teams, it only sends the edit to one other slack.

I'll file an issue, but for now, don't assume everyone will see edits or deleted messages. I'll work on a fix.
patcon 02:28:02
a couple other things to note (will pin in a pretty message soon):
- reaction emoji don't go through.
- threads get unthreaded. this means quotes and references to the topic you're replying to become a bit more important, ESPECIALLY for old threads
- once we're comfortable that this works well, we can leave the dup channels in all but one slack
patcon 02:29:53
(final edit test for bug report...)
@null 04:01:48
sorry, one more test

@null 04:06:43
Hey Pat this is great but would it be ok to do this once the Hacknight directors have voted on this? They have not yet said yes on the proposal and I hate to jump the gun on this

@null 04:09:23
no worries :slightly_smiling_face: was eager to stitch efforts, but i'll def disconnect proghacknight slack form the bridge for now. (was going for the forgiveness rather than permission thing, but i totally feel for the precautionary principle.)

@null 04:10:16
fwiw, this is _technically_ just a user doing something with their own api token, which every slack user has the power to use. (due to some wierdness of slack api, it's a bit easier for me to have a second account using the token)

itsmisscs 04:11:48
wow! i love this bridget thing!!!
itsmisscs 04:11:58
great job getting this in @patcon!
patcon 04:12:35
devin 11:17:21
ya nice job


lizbarry 03:13:44
I am getting a lot of hard to escape demands on my tomorrow :(
itsmisscs 04:29:00
what a cute way of saying one can’t make it. i’m saving this.
dzn 05:24:10
Me too it would seem!!
dzn 05:24:15
dzn 05:24:24
shall we re-convene another time?
dzn 05:24:52
I will write and send the abstract for School of Data workshop though!
dzn 05:24:57
That’s due tomorrow
itsmisscs 06:59:09
i’m back on saturday y’all!
itsmisscs 06:59:14
can’t wait to see faces
dzn 10:52:01
lizbarry 22:37:39
yay! yes ack i really look forward to joining orbital for lunch if not today then soon! would love to have that as a plan for next week (after i survive my first day of class!)
lizbarry 22:38:25
this week i'm out of weekday time for g0v projecting because of going to ProgHackNight and having a call yesterday AM on parliamentary procedure :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


patcon 04:44:41
hey, just realized that the OpenCollective Foundation could be our fiscal sponsor like right now:

Open Collective Foundation

This is the host organization for the charitable mission collectives.

patcon 04:45:38
> What do we do?
> The Foundation’s mission is to promote projects in the US with the following charitable purposes:
> * developing tools to improve civic participation within cities or communities.
> [...]
> Civic Participation
> We will sponsor projects aimed at fostering civic participation, democratic debate, rebuild community ties and strengths.
> Examples of collectives in this category are Civic Innovation Network and Democracy Earth
patcon 04:47:11
obviously must stick to USA things, but that means any of these could create be a banner for a collective:

* g0v USA
* vNetwork USA
* vNYC
patcon 10:57:46
perfect! ok, so the project maintainer of the slack bridge we're using helped get a major bug fixed. now any edits to slack messages (incl deletions) get sent through to all other slack teams attached to the bridge :tada:


devin 11:31:52
Nice. I have some Open Collective experience - easy and simple.


katenicholson 03:35:43
@patcon Hey - are you in toronto this week? i’m going to be in town weds night to screen our film at TIFF. It’s a quick overnight trip, but could find a second to say hello if you’re around. Also invited to see the film (7pm).
patcon 05:43:29
Whoa! Yeah, I'd love to! My parents miiiiight be flying through toronto on their way to Europe, but I will let you know as soon as I sort that. Thanks for invite!

(You should come to our hacknight tomorrow if you're in town. Or post-hangouts after 9pm. We're hosted by McKinsey &amp; Company office this month)
katenicholson 07:34:35
I have process question. I uploaded something to the google drive. It’s a pdf of someone’s photocopy of a book. If there is anything I need to know about sharing this type of content, let me know.
patcon 12:44:05
My personal feels is that we're good until someone asks us not to? :)