#vnetwork | g0v.tw | slack archive

katenicholson 03:44:22

What were you guys up to yesterday?

lizbarry 07:35:22

We chose dates for the facilitator training Friday May 11 Saturday 12; we updated and submitted the AwesomeFoundation NYC application for support for this event; drank beverages; missed you

devin 03:00:40

Can you tell us a bit more about the training? When/where/how long/content/size?

katenicholson 03:28:56

Yah Im curious too! Do you guys have a facilitation framework you’re working on for training? Or is it all set?

itsmisscs 05:12:33

it’s all based on the training Taiwan is successfully using for their participation officers. speaking for the team, i’d say our goals are a) learn from the great success of taiwan’s training methods; b) record the first english language version of their training and release for (western) audience

devin 05:13:47

Nice how many spots will you have?

itsmisscs 05:13:58

we are planning for 20-30

itsmisscs 05:14:05

you should sponsor and/or get a ticket 😛

devin 05:20:00

What does sponsor mean? Costs?

itsmisscs 05:20:14

give us this week to get you a prospectus 🙂

devin 05:20:27

K

thebestsophist 05:48:34

(I’m slowly trying to convince a few 18F folks to come to this)

itsmisscs 05:49:59

@thebestsophist would it be worth it to send 18F boss-decision makers our prospectus?

itsmisscs 05:50:36

our ticket costs should be reasonable but there will be sponsorship perks…not sure what US gov can rightfully sponsor though. at any rate, group rates will be a thing

thebestsophist 05:52:17

Sponsorship through GSA (which is what 18f sponsorship would mean) puts a *lot* of rules on what can be funded, so I’m hesitant to do that. but a prospectus to help see if we can fund our tickets through our professional training budget could be useful.

thebestsophist 05:52:40

(and a lot faster)

thebestsophist 05:53:53

(event location, food rules, accounting, &c suddenly get a lot harder)

patcon 12:38:51

> i’d say our goals are a) learn from taiwan training b) record english

yah! yah! and wondering what folks here think about consistently emphasizing that goal around "building a community of neutral citizen facilitators"? Wondering if that might be a part of the special sauce that let's us interact in the most amicable way with existing communities of consultation/faciltiation professionals 🙂

devin 10:09:46

Just came accross this - thought it was interesting. https://participedia.net/en Adding it to the AirTable.

patcon 2018-04-07 00:44:30

Yeah! They're working with gov in Canada!

💪 https://github.com/canada-ca/welcome/issues/20#comment-308540669

Also, beta of their open source relaunch is at participedia.xyz (appears much more future-oriented)

🎉 1

patcon 00:44:30

Yeah! They're working with gov in Canada!

💪 https://github.com/canada-ca/welcome/issues/20#comment-308540669

Also, beta of their open source relaunch is at participedia.xyz (appears much more future-oriented)

patcon 00:46:45

@here We'll be doing an open call / work session at 2pm today! Come to think of it, we could prob create a recurring message in this channel, with details (agendas, call link, etc). I'll do that later today if no objection

patcon 00:48:56

We usually use appear.in/vnetwork, but wondering about meet.jit.si/vnetwork (open source, end-to-end encrypted, and tons of new features lately (incl ability to call in, stream to YouTube via stream key, etc)

patcon 01:52:06

@lizbarry @darshana still 25 min away, but if y'all felt like taking notes, I can catch up without tedious recap :)

dzn 01:52:38

happy to recap!

dzn 01:52:42

chat soon

dzn 01:52:46

we’ll write notes

lizbarry 01:57:50

cool -- i'll open up jitsi

devin 02:01:16

Thanks for the invite but can't make it today. 🙂

patcon 04:31:14

Setting up compy

devin 02:46:15

Does anyone know of pol.is recently put the visualization feature behind a paywall of something? All of a sudden that feature is locked from my admin screen.

devin 02:58:19

Export data too is locked. So the free version is basically unusable now?

patcon 05:02:37

hm... that would really surprise me..! i knew export data was going away, but the viz going away would be pretty unexpected to me

patcon 05:02:50

@devin are you on metapolis slack?

devin 05:04:14

Screenshot from 2018-04-08 17-03-51.png

devin 05:04:23

Can you log in and see if it's disabled for you too?

devin 05:04:30

I'm not on metapolis

itsmisscs 06:42:42

@devin at the moment, yes those are behind paywall but if you email Colin I'm sure he will grant your account access for now

itsmisscs 06:44:03

There isn't really a free version of Polis at the moment. Team is working on that but for now Polis has double downed on high touch engagements

patcon 07:01:12

hm... i don't know what to think of that..

patcon 07:02:04

i have no idea how it would now apply to all the people i've talked about it to...? but i mean, i trust them quite deeply, so if they're doing this, i guess they needed to?

patcon 07:02:21

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

patcon 07:03:28

trying to work on this a bit tonight fwiw: https://trello.com/b/6MHFIpnA/vnetwork-community-onboarding

Trello

vNetwork: Community Onboarding

Trello is the visual collaboration platform that gives teams perspective on projects. Use Trello to collaborate, communicate and coordinate on all of your projects.

devin 07:13:38

I find this highly problematic.

🤔 1

devin 07:15:19

Reducing free features sucks but it's something that if you're offering a free as in beer system to people then - it happens. But taking away the ability to export data is predatory.

devin 07:16:43

Maybe that wasn't the intention and was kind of an oversight but ya - that's a real problem. I'm happy I didn't get more people to use the software because then I'd be the one who made their data inaccessible.

devin 07:16:58

Second, I can't recommend a tool to people without a clear pricing structure.

devin 07:19:48

I guess I'll see what it'll take to set up my own deployment off their github...

itsmisscs 07:37:27

Just email Colin and you will get you access. This was introduced a looooong time ago fwiw. Not a recent change

itsmisscs 07:38:04

Thanks for your feedback. Will take it back to the team.

devin 07:43:38

@itsmisscs I appreciate your responsiveness. 🙂

itsmisscs 2018-04-09 07:57:33

You’re welcome, Devin 🙂

thebestsophist 07:43:42

selfishly—i would be _very interested_ in getting polis in a docker container because that would go a long way for my needs.

devin 2018-04-09 07:49:35

Me too. How can we make that happen?

itsmisscs 2018-04-09 07:57:07

Me three!

itsmisscs 2018-04-09 07:57:20

You can just do it 🙂 it’s all open source. Contribute back

devin 2018-04-09 08:05:10

My org could donate $500 to this and if we need to raise more could collect 501c3 donations for it.

patcon 2018-04-09 08:43:29

yay @devin! I support that!

I wish the open source community building wasn't necessarily happening with this pressure -- ie. public features being missing that existing product champions feel are essentials. While I can personally ask colin for an exemption, i now wouldn't find myself recommending polis so unreservedly to people I know who don't have such access or clarity... 🤔

itsmisscs 2018-04-09 08:55:01

Polis team is working on a solution for all. I would hope that we all keep recommending a product that we know isn't being malicious and does champion people. The decision was made to provide the best service not to restrict or lock people out. It's still an open source product.

devin 07:49:35

Me too. How can we make that happen?

itsmisscs 07:57:07

Me three!

itsmisscs 07:57:20

You can just do it 🙂 it’s all open source. Contribute back

itsmisscs 07:57:33

You’re welcome, Devin 🙂

devin 08:05:10

My org could donate $500 to this and if we need to raise more could collect 501c3 donations for it.

1

patcon 08:43:29

yay @devin! I support that!

I wish the open source community building wasn't necessarily happening with this pressure -- ie. public features being missing that existing product champions feel are essentials. While I can personally ask colin for an exemption, i now wouldn't find myself recommending polis so unreservedly to people I know who don't have such access or clarity... 🤔

itsmisscs 08:55:01

Polis team is working on a solution for all. I would hope that we all keep recommending a product that we know isn't being malicious and does champion people. The decision was made to provide the best service not to restrict or lock people out. It's still an open source product.

@null 09:38:36

added an integration to this channel: https://civictechto.slack.com/services/BA2LYRSTT

patcon 10:15:50

working on the onboarding: https://trello.com/b/6MHFIpnA/vnetwork-community-onboarding

there's a glitch and the slack notifications aren't kicking off in here, but I'll get that working later :wink:

Trello

vNetwork: Community Onboarding

Trello is the visual collaboration platform that gives teams perspective on projects. Use Trello to collaborate, communicate and coordinate on all of your projects.

patcon 10:16:18

<!here> Anyone have any other ideas of what things new people could be brought up-to-speed on?

patcon 10:16:53

Also, language in some places is bare-bones, and could be tweaked to be friendlier (bonus points for emoji)

patcon 10:19:11

@theobass any chance I could put a draft of your unreleased article in there? this likely won't be high throughput, but there's tons of great context

dzn 00:05:41

Hey. Any here know @devin 's phone number? DM if you do. Thanks!

dzn 00:06:38

@devin if you are online, call me!

chewei 00:03:45

@chewei has joined the channel

patcon 03:41:27

Just wanted to share this link as the best reference for a vtaiwan practice that I can't find my original source on:
https://www.slideshare.net/autang/orid-60305691#9

Basically, that slide is just showing how part of processing the initial discourse forum conversations was literally printing off the pages of the discussion and highlighting the various parts of sentences as facts/feelings/ideas (from ORID)

slideshare.net

ORID 焦點討論法

20160401 <http://join.gov.tw|join.gov.tw> 工作坊教案。

patcon 03:41:35

anyhow, just wanted to log that somewhere

@null 21:48:38

@irina6793 has left the channel

@null 04:44:18

New onboarding initiated! https://trello.com/b/MTjrF3ju/patcons-vnetwork-community-onboarding

alexjay 05:21:17

@dotoriworks has joined the channel

patcon 05:23:17

👋 @dotoriworks here's the onboarding trello board I was telling you about 🙂
if you wouldn't mind offering any feedback, pls do drop it here or DM me! 🎉
https://trello.com/b/6MHFIpnA/vnetwork-community-onboarding

Trello

vNetwork: Community Onboarding

Trello is the visual collaboration platform that gives teams perspective on projects. Use Trello to collaborate, communicate and coordinate on all of your projects.

alexjay 05:23:56

hey folks! and thank you @patcon!

patcon 00:59:25

@darshana @itsmisscs @lizbarry when you get a sec, pls do let us know your timelines for being online today :)

patcon 00:59:30

@dotoriworks and I are meeting in 15 min at the city's Civic Innovation Office, for their open hours. We'll mostly stick to ourselves while we get sync'd up, so as to let y'all get work done, but we might join call to share airspace (and careful not to consume attention while you're working :)

dzn 01:00:51

@patcon I’ll be at orbital around 3. Any time after is fine with me

dzn 01:00:56

🙂

lizbarry 01:04:31

I hope to be there around 3 as well!

itsmisscs 01:05:33

Im on the way to orbital

itsmisscs 01:09:49

Adding @nathan.p.storey to this channel

npstorey 01:09:56

@nathan.p.storey has joined the channel

🖖 1 🎉 1

patcon 01:24:34

Okie! Just got to civic innovation office in lobby of Toronto city hall, and convinced the director to let us cowork here for a few weeks 1-3pm. New format for them!

patcon 01:25:57

Haha office hours are only till 3, but @dotoriworks and I will hang and get up to speed. I'll aim to work on website if he gets rolling with reading :)

Feel free to drop any other priority tasks in here, or happy to move convo to #facilitation-fest-nyc!

itsmisscs 02:03:24

cross posted to #facilitation-fest-nyc https://g0v-tw.slack.com/archives/C9JMEGYTV/p1524852192000532

Booked us on the 4th floor in the “long room”

alexjay 03:36:17

Adding in some notes from meeting with @patcon today on this hackpad: https://hackpad.tw/Toronto-0427-EzT5v7qxKYk

hackpad.tw

Toronto 04/27

This pad text is synchronized as you type, so that everyone viewing this page sees the same text. This allows you to collaborate seamlessly on documents! -- References: <https://opengovreport.ocf.tw/assets/pdf/report-en>.

🙌 1

dzn 03:37:19

@lizbarry @itsmisscs @patcon @devin @katehnicholson @nathan.p.storey hey. can we please keep our travel updates and friday logistics chats to here? And the facilitation-fest-channel can be only the planning that involves Taiwan people directly? What say?

patcon 2018-04-28 05:31:49

what about just threading the local grapevine convo when pdoing the friday thing. like just a message that says:

> LOCAL THREAD: friday orbital meeting @itsmisscs @lizbarry @devin @katehnicholson @whoever

this everyone just has those chats in there? 🙂

patcon 2018-04-28 05:31:56

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dzn 2018-04-28 12:36:00

works for me

dzn 2018-04-28 12:36:07

¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯

lizbarry 2018-04-28 22:45:55

_<changes name to @whoever>_

✅ 1

katenicholson 03:37:50

Ah yes sure.

dzn 03:39:46

The thought of Taiwan folk waking up to the NYC traffic update every Saturday is funny, but maybe not for them 🙂

devin 03:43:07

Why not use vnyc? Then this can be a welcoming space for nonnycers

katenicholson 03:43:36

Sure. Makes sense if we’re discussing NYC event.

devin 03:46:21

I'm downstairs

itsmisscs 03:49:26

because we have people from toronto involved

🙌 2

itsmisscs 03:49:35

it’s a network event 🙂

patcon 05:31:49

what about just threading the local grapevine convo when pdoing the friday thing. like just a message that says:

> LOCAL THREAD: friday orbital meeting @itsmisscs @lizbarry @devin @katehnicholson @whoever

this everyone just has those chats in there? 🙂

patcon 05:31:56

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dzn 12:36:00

works for me

dzn 12:36:07

¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯

lizbarry 22:45:55

_<changes name to @whoever>_

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