covid19

Month: 2021-08

2021-08-01

justinachi93071717320 02:26:31
@justinachi93071717320 has joined the channel

2021-08-02

Uy 09:51:25
@dosimple21 has joined the channel
Carol 16:30:41
@wu.yen08 has joined the channel

2021-08-05

地球球 23:34:04
@elaine890907 has joined the channel

2021-08-06

chewei 17:11:03
covid19-data-list
How many business closed because of covid in Taiwan ?
https://github.com/g0v/covid19-data-list/issues/14

Hi, is there any metrics on how many business closed because of covid in Taiwan ? I was thinking something like an historical count of business closure since 2018 to today

<https://github.com/g0v/covid19-data-list/issues/14|#14 How many business closed because of covid in Taiwan ?>

log from <https://g0v-slack-archive.g0v.ronny.tw/index/channel/C1CHAA0QL/2021-08#ts-1627987383.0019|g0v slack #general-en> eric&gt; Hi, is there any metrics on how many business closed because of covid in Taiwan ? I was thinking something like an historical count of business closure since 2018 to today mrorz&gt;This may help It’s the statistics for survived / closed business count (and their capital size) within the selected month (earliest data dates back to the year 2011), by cities <https://serv.gcis.nat.gov.tw/StatisticQry/cmpy/StaticFunction3.jsp|https://serv.gcis.nat.gov.tw/StatisticQry/cmpy/StaticFunction3.jsp> Data in XLS format is available here <https://dmz26.moea.gov.tw/GA/common/Common.aspx?code=F&amp;no=3|https://dmz26.moea.gov.tw/GA/common/Common.aspx?code=F&amp;no=3> Number of dismissed businesses per month by district In the left drawer you also have breakdown of dismissed companies by industries <https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/8068193/128340566-b598d9ca-5d88-4bee-b1b4-ed5943422332.png|image> Hmm instead of companies, I think business registrations would be more accurate. Most restaurants and independent shops won’t have a company <https://dmz26.moea.gov.tw/GA/common/Common.aspx?code=F&amp;no=26|https://dmz26.moea.gov.tw/GA/common/Common.aspx?code=F&amp;no=26> eric&gt; With the closure data not much to see : <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M0z-5K44A-QL0WnWBXkIjPErsUicBhqBWMnYSkYrDQk/edit?usp=sharing|https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M0z-5K44A-QL0WnWBXkIjPErsUicBhqBWMnYSkYrDQk/edit?usp=sharing>

2021-08-11

Jenn 08:51:58
@24kkoi has joined the channel
bow1130bow 16:43:27
@bow1130bow has joined the channel

2021-08-13

dirty 11:16:25
@dirty has left the channel
tai 16:57:59
@contactfromg0vslack has joined the channel
Lulu Keng 22:01:02
What Happened in China when COVID-19 started ? >> "COVID-19 Chinese Archive"
This is a searchable data index for accessing Chinese online information about COVID (with all information translated in English). 這是一個備份中國疫情網路詢訊息的專門搜尋平台。

夥伴們花了快一年,搜集了中國網友當時努力整理起來的網路訊息資料集, 雖然過程中這些線上資料集不時消失,不過有更多網友努力存檔讓我們找到了豐富的備份資料,在整理格式數個月後,終於把 5000 多筆資料中英並呈放進這個搜尋引擎,希望未來想查找資料的非中文研究者,能有入口可以看到網友們努力想要把這些聲音保存下來的心血。

Welcome to try this search engine. 歡迎來試用。

twitter.com

COVID-19 Chinese Archive (@cov19zharc1) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from COVID-19 Chinese Archive (@cov19zharc1). The COVID-19 Chinese Archive serves as an index of online Chinese contents about #COVID19. Click <https://t.co/nFFX5qs32o>

Twitter 比較容易搜尋到,現在 google 還查不到啊,不過直接打的話網址是:https://cov19zharc.net/
8 ❤️ 4 🚀 3

2021-08-14

minexo79 18:49:04
https://hackmd.io/@PQ-vvZNjSByJgYWq22pEBQ/SJ033fLj_
我蒐集了台灣CDC大致上目前可以接種的COVID-19疫苗接種意願書以及注意事項,有想到就會更新
想打某一牌的疫苗可以先看一下會有什麼副作用

HackMD

疫苗接種事項 - HackMD

# 疫苗接種事項 ###### tags: `自己的東西` :::info 蒐集台灣CDC大致上目前可以接種的COVID-19疫苗接種意願書以及注意事項,有想到就會更新以下的資訊。 ::: ##

2021-08-16

Jason Hsu 17:15:21
@jasonhsu2013 has joined the channel

2021-08-17

毓球錢理路 11:38:33
布蘭迪・沃恩(Brandy Vaughan)是一名反疫苗運動家,曾在默克藥廠擔任業務,這是她生前為了反對「藝喵」的影片,她勇敢的揭露了醫藥真實的危險以及藥廠、媒體與政府之間的腐敗!

相信她的正義與勇氣將會為很多人帶來改變!

https://ling-chih.com/brandy-vaughan/?fbclid=IwAR1oheax8o3CX9WxVLxYFl0DBf8NfzWYs9CcSUpDwerW5agyo0--9d3hjwo

法蘭西,浮生若夢

Brandy Vaughan:一個良心發現而起底製藥業的女人

布蘭迪・沃恩(Brandy Vaughan)是一名反疫苗運動家,曾在默克藥廠擔任三年業務。她形容自己是 「一位...

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Guo-Jim 12:11:05
🍉

2021-08-18

陳婷 13:50:28
@k789071 has joined the channel
kiang 18:53:30
希望特別條例別再延長
https://vision.udn.com/vision/story/122401/5681013

願景工程

科技疫調 空白授權 恐遭濫權 | 願景工程

疫情讓政府採取更多新科技防疫措施,但民眾足跡的數據資料,是否遭不當使用,人權團體提出不少質疑,東吳大學法律研究所教授李念...

😢 1

2021-08-19

Alex 12:21:23
@alex0952541263 has joined the channel
Alex 12:23:03
https://sites.google.com/view/tobehealthy/
我搜集的相關資料,請參考

sites.google.com

Health

2021 7/28 我接到學校關切施打實驗性生物製劑的電話,得知教育部變相強制老師施打疫苗。跟友人分享這個訊息後,我開始陸續加入一些討論群組。 7/31 我想將彭奕竣中醫師的電子書內容分享到FB,竟然無法分享,這時候我才感覺到有問題了。原來網路言論審查是真的,無法接納這樣一個中醫師的不同看法,讓我開始在不同的群組分享我接觸到的訊息。Youtube也是。這個<https://rumble.com/vkwga6-dr.-dan-stock-862021-better-audio.html影片被下架> 如果還想知道更近一步訊息,歡迎加入討論群組。 彭

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Alex 21:41:10
Why X?
Kai WANG 22:48:27
@david.kaiwang has joined the channel
kiang 22:54:43
就希望可以基於普遍認可的科學研究討論吧,太偏門的爭論不是這兒成立的目的

2021-08-20

chhsiao1981 00:33:15
@alex0952541263

不確定你到底有多相信你所蒐集到的 “疫苗懷疑論/疫苗陰謀論” 的資訊~

雖然是有言論自由~
但是也有破除不實謠言的基本原則~

就在其他國家施打疫苗的結果來說~
目前在台灣施打的疫苗都是有效並且 Z >> B 的疫苗~
即使是大家覺得比較有爭議的高端疫苗~
其實也都有相關的科學數據支持有很高的機率是高端疫苗的效果是比 AZ 好的~
Alex 09:03:46
首先要先感謝兩位願意回覆您的意見與理性的討論
毓球錢理路 11:26:01
當初台灣是靠好的防疫才沒事的,為什麼變成要打疫苗才等於防疫?這樣當初就要求打不就好了
擷取.PNG
> 當初就要求打不就好了
當初還在做疫苗ㄛ
要不要打疫苗是個人選擇,台灣到目前還沒有強迫非造冊的職業從業人員打疫苗,個人仍然可以選擇不去理會,並且承擔相關風險
但是老師被要求沒有打疫苗就要提供陰性證明,不能不理會的。將來也許會有疫苗護照,不強迫你打,但是很多事情你不能做,我們來思考看看是否合理?
很合理,學生不能打疫苗;就跟臥病在床的老人不能打,但是身邊所有的照護人員都必須要打

不打疫苗,就有潛在散播風險,高接觸的行業與行為被阻擋也是剛好而已

不想打,可以自己選擇不要打,這是當然的自由權力
但是風險請自己承擔,別人可以要求不一起承擔這個不打疫苗的風險
甚至我認為不打疫苗,感染了請不要去醫院,在家自己休養就好
新疾病的認識、研究、理解,醫療手段的Try & Error...
照護人力、器材的不足與產線(學校)加班加點把資源補上的過程
部長有說現階段不做疫苗護照,就是要尊重選擇不打的人的人權。目前各地主政者中,最積極在推動疫苗紀錄做為活動門檻的是柯市長。
如果要堅持自己不想打疫苗的權利,記得要向北市國民黨議員充分表達你的意見。北市一直往健康碼的制度在發展。
部長這兩天記者會多次說現階段不做疫苗護照,就是中央政府盡力堅持保障選擇不打疫苗的人的人權。

目前各地主政者中,最積極在推動疫苗紀錄做為出入行動門檻的是北市柯市長。

北市一直往健康碼的制度在發展。如果要堅持自己不想打疫苗的權利,記得要向北市國民黨議員充分表達你的意見。

> 柯文哲稱疫苗護照勢在必行
> 北市議員應曉薇要求,市府應儘速建構疫苗通行證,讓施打2劑疫苗的民眾可在餐廳內用。對此,台北市長柯文哲持肯定態度,表示疫苗護照勢在必行,否則無法管理,台北採用「一卡一通一付」的作法也在環南市場試驗成功。
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chinatimes.com/amp/newspapers/20210728000445-260107
感謝兩位的理性分析!
其中提到「不打疫苗,就有潛在散播風險」,打了疫苗也會傳給別人,不知道大家有沒有接觸到這方面的訊息。
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s8321414 18:07:11
@s8321414 has left the channel
chhsiao1981 21:03:44
@zxc32496428 @alex0952541263

不確定你們到底有多相信你們所提供的資訊~

@zxc32496428 目前相關領域的科學家們的共識是雖然疫苗對於 delta variant 的保護力有下降~
但是打完疫苗以後重症死亡的機率還是有很明顯的下降~

以“完成兩劑接種率“相對較高的麻州 (> 60%) 為例~
目前還是每天都會通報 1200+ 新的檢驗陽性案例~
但是通報的病死人數大致上平均每天是 4~5 個~ (大約是 0.4%)
(數字已經穩定了 3 個星期~ 所以不太有“林韋地死亡率“的情形發生~)

有很明顯地比打疫苗前的 1%~3% 病死率好很多~


@alex0952541263
你所提到的“沒有打疫苗就要提陰性證明“~
基本上這跟吸菸的人不能在公共場所的室內吸菸是一樣的情形~

大致上如 @joy 所說~
主要是在於“老師進教室之前可能是陽性的機率並傳染給學生的機率有多高~”
所以可以選擇不打疫苗~但是不打疫苗必須要提陰性證明~
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irvin 22:01:17
部長這兩天記者會多次說現階段不做疫苗護照,就是中央政府盡力堅持保障選擇不打疫苗的人的人權。

目前各地主政者中,最積極在推動疫苗紀錄做為出入行動門檻的是北市柯市長。

北市一直往健康碼的制度在發展。如果要堅持自己不想打疫苗的權利,記得要向北市國民黨議員充分表達你的意見。

> 柯文哲稱疫苗護照勢在必行
> 北市議員應曉薇要求,市府應儘速建構疫苗通行證,讓施打2劑疫苗的民眾可在餐廳內用。對此,台北市長柯文哲持肯定態度,表示疫苗護照勢在必行,否則無法管理,台北採用「一卡一通一付」的作法也在環南市場試驗成功。
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chinatimes.com/amp/newspapers/20210728000445-260107

中時新聞網

柯文哲稱疫苗護照 勢在必行 - 地方新聞

全台降為二級警戒首日,雙北餐飲仍持續禁止內用,北市議員應曉薇要求,市府應儘速建構疫苗通行證,讓施打2劑疫苗的民眾可在餐廳內用。對此,台北市長柯文哲持肯定態度,表示疫苗護照勢在必行,否則無法管理,台北採

2021-08-21

Allie 02:16:09
@yuchu.allison.tang has joined the channel
Alex 18:12:07
有人知道打了疫苗仍會被感染也會傳給別人嗎?
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Alex 18:12:44
需要提供相關訊息嗎?
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Alex 18:13:58
我們先確認這點,再來討論是否跟吸菸的例子一樣
Alex 18:14:14
還是謝謝大家很理性的分析
irvin 18:49:21
> A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others. However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

👍 4

2021-08-22

chhsiao1981 00:17:51
@alex0952541263

並沒有人提到 “打了疫苗就不會被感染, 也不會傳給別人“~

@irvin 所提供的訊息~
我們一直都是在討論“可能發生的機率“~
有許多科學證據顯示打了疫苗的人再被感染而且傳給別人的機率是比沒有打疫苗的人低的~
小虎 08:17:00
你們太認真回他了,這個人根本不相信自己講的東西,去追他轉貼網站裡面的反疫苗群組就可以發現中國網軍的痕跡了
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小虎 08:17:50
這是以消耗台灣國力為目標的生物資訊戰
Alex 10:24:48
請問「有許多科學證據顯示打了疫苗的人再被感染而且傳給別人的機率是比沒有打疫苗的人低的」是否有數據,我是真心請教,也願意接受你能夠提供的科學證據。我到目前為止應該還沒有說出什麼違反科學的話吧?有的話請指正。
美國 CDC 這篇文章,對於他上面列出的六個 keypoint,都有非常完整的資訊、數據跟文獻出處。我覺得既然老師的專業是英文,你應該可以自行在其中找到答案。
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
public health england 周報都會有這個主題 Effectiveness against transmission

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012420/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_33.pdf

主要參考是這兩個研究

V Shah AS, Gribben C, Bishop J, Hanlon P, Caldwell D, Wood R and others. ‘Effect of vaccination on transmission of COVID-19: an observational study in healthcare workers and their households.’ medRxiv 2021: 2021.03.11.21253275

Harris RJ, Hall JA, Zaidi A, Andrews NJ, Dunbar JK, Dabrera G. ‘Impact of vaccination on household transmission of SARS-COV-2 in England.’ Public Health England 2021
上面的 CDC 也有 cite 到這兩篇(參考文獻 25, 45-46)

另外裡面的疫苗 effectiveness 數字(主要來自三期研究)即是是對於感染的保護力。既然已驗證能夠降低感染機率,自然能夠減少感染者再傳染出去的機率。
謝謝,這就是我需要參考的訊息。
題外話:方格子可以回報 misinformation 嗎?
這一篇的主要論點應該就只有一句:
> 實際數據顯示大多數感染者為“已完全接種疫苗的人”
我想有太多數據能證明這是錯誤資訊。

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
他的另外一個論點是:_Delta變異株很容易傳染, 但很溫和就跟感冒差不多_
> Some data suggest the Delta variant might cause more severe illness than previous strains in unvaccinated persons. In two different studies from Canada and Scotland, patients infected with the Delta variant were more likely to be hospitalized than patients infected with Alpha or the original virus strains.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html
了解,謝謝irvin
月初有話好說就有討論過英國為何可以解封?即使現在重新爆發大流行,仍然要解封?

節目的討論說法是指
1.疫苗覆蓋率+自然感染康復人數=具備抗體人數,整體比例夠高
2.已經有打過疫苗的狀況下,即使Delta變異株會有疫苗突破,但整體症狀輕微,不需住院、不會造成醫療負擔
2-1.症狀輕微狀況下,就真的只是一般的流感(觀察死亡率與流感相當)
2-2.有抗體、沒有重症的人群,傳染能力較低?(這點沒結論)
🤣 1
Alex 10:32:30
「反疫苗群組就可以發現中國網軍的痕跡」,這個我沒有發現,當我無知,可以指點一下說得更明白嗎?
即使群組裡頭有一些有問題的聲音,我們可以針對訊息內容做理性的思考與判斷嗎?還是要讓這些有問題的地方蓋過了其他的正確資訊?
我是花蓮太昌國小林益誠,我不是中國網軍,請教大名?
irvin 14:02:32
美國 CDC 這篇文章,對於他上面列出的六個 keypoint,都有非常完整的資訊、數據跟文獻出處。我覺得既然老師的專業是英文,你應該可以自行在其中找到答案。
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

👍 4
小虎 15:30:59
美國CDC COVID-19圖書館 每個禮拜都會整理COVID-19最新科研文獻
自己去看,資訊都有掌握就不會講出你這些故意裝傻的廢話

反正你根本沒有影響力,根本也懶得認真回你

報名號也不會增加你這些廢話的可信度

https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/scienceupdates.html?Sort=Date%3A%3Adesc

cdc.gov

CDC Library: COVID-19 Science Updates

Stephen B. Thacker CDC Library is the CDC's hub for information, education, innovation and collaboration.

2021-08-23

isabelhou 13:38:58
https://g0v.tw/intl/zh-TW/coc/ 『g0v 社群參與者應共同致力於提供一個友善且無騷擾的環境給每一位參與者,無論其性別、性傾向、年紀、身心理狀態、外貌、族群、信仰、政治立場或技術偏好。』
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chihao 13:44:00
在大松如果遇到自己沒興趣的專案,去參加別的就好;看到不認同的發言,也可以去參與其他討論(嗎?)😛
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Ken Huang 13:46:56
@ka5983 has left the channel
kiang 14:14:53
這裡比 ptt 友善多了 XD
chihao 15:07:36
PTS…
RickyTeng 15:58:55
請問一下,是不是今天應該要開放疫苗意願登記?會是因為之前加開到21號而這次延後嗎?
下午有再加開高端疫苗預約,所以意願登記暫停
應該要等預約到明天下午六點結束之後才會再開放意願調整
Alex 22:19:21
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm
請教根據cdc的這篇資料可以說:打過疫苗不一定比沒打疫苗更不容易受感染嗎?歡迎討論同時營造友善且無騷擾的環境。

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, including COVID-19 ...

This report describes COVID-19 outbreaks associated with ...

你真的有點進去看嗎?哪裡可以推論「打過疫苗不一定比沒打疫苗更不容易受感染」?
結論第一句就說了:"First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases."
所以由此只能得知,接種疫苗者仍會染疫,但無法得到與未完全接種者之可能性的比較。謝謝acechen
我不知道你如何解讀這段話的,我英文不好,所以無法直接閱讀英文,也許Google翻譯會有誤差

但是我用Google翻譯的解讀是
因為疫苗覆蓋率高,所以染疫的人數會有一定數量的完整疫苗接種者。
高疫苗覆蓋率的情況無法做疫苗與無疫苗的保護力比較...

印象也是因為這種情況,以及道德倫理顧慮,所以有在討論後出疫苗的免疫橋接
差不多喔
疫苗本身的保護力,在EUA的條件美國、以及台灣現在這三支進口的,都已經有做過保護力的臨床實驗了,只是面對的是原始武漢病毒株
這篇說的是現在三支疫苗面對印度Delta株,美國現況無法得出保護力的有效結論。

但是chsiao1981說的康復力,以及重症、死亡率,都還是有很明顯差異(與去年大爆發的時期比較)

新聞有提到美國目前染疫住院的,大多都是沒打過疫苗的人 (也是因為各種信仰、政治因素等...)
但是也有接種疫苗者攜帶的病毒量遠超過未接種者的研究,不知道有接觸到相關資訊嗎?
機率、活性
mikechen 23:45:46
US FDA gives full approval to Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine.

Moderna filled their application a month later, and is reported to be on the same FDA approval timeline.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-approval-1361ff61d06b815652a08a7cc0683a72

AP NEWS

US regulators give full approval to Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. gave full approval to Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine Monday, a milestone that could lift public confidence in the shots and spur more companies, universities and local governments to make vaccinations mandatory.

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2021-08-24

chhsiao1981 02:06:34
@alex0952541263

你提到的那個 report~
是在麻州的一個退休 + 度假勝地 (cape cod) 附近.
所提到的 469 個是住在麻州的人.
其中提到將近 1/2 是住在當地~

1. 雖然目前看起來是 delta 肆虐~ 但是並不代表其他 variant 就沒了~ 台灣認可的疫苗, 對於其他 variant 都還是很有效.
2. 關於 delta vs. 的疫苗的情形. 雖然目前看起來無法防止被感染. 但是打過疫苗的人. 即使被感染了. 病毒量下降的速度也是明顯的比較快.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261295v1
也因為如此. 可以推測被感染以後. 之後恢復會比較快. 傳染給別人的機率也會比較少.

medRxiv

Virological and serological kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant vaccine-breakthrough infections: a multi-center cohort study

Objectives Highly effective vaccines against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) have been developed but variants of concerns (VOCs) with mutations in the spike protein are worrisome, especially B.1.617.2 (Delta) which has rapidly spread across the world. We aim to study if vaccination alters virological and serological kinetics in breakthrough infections. Methods We conducted a multi-centre retrospective cohort study of patients in Singapore who had received a licensed mRNA vaccine and been admitted to hospital with B.1.617.2 SARS-CoV-2 infection. We compared the clinical features, virological and serological kinetics (anti-nucleocapsid, anti-spike and surrogate virus neutralization titres) between fully vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Results Of 218 individuals with B.1.617.2 infection, 84 had received a mRNA vaccine of which 71 were fully vaccinated, 130 were unvaccinated and 4 received a non-mRNA. Despite significantly older age in the vaccine breakthrough group, the odds of severe COVID-19 requiring oxygen supplementation was significantly lower following vaccination (adjusted odds ratio 0.07 95%CI: 0.015-0.335, p=0.001). PCR cycle threshold (Ct) values were similar between both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups at diagnosis, but viral loads decreased faster in vaccinated individuals. Early, robust boosting of anti-spike protein antibodies was observed in vaccinated patients, however, these titers were significantly lower against B.1.617.2 as compared with the wildtype vaccine strain. Conclusion The mRNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing symptomatic and severe COVID-19 associated with B.1.617.2 infection. Vaccination is associated with faster decline in viral RNA load and a robust serological response. Vaccination remains a key strategy for control of COVID-19 pandemic. ### Competing Interest Statement BEY reports personal fees from Roche and Sanofi, outside the submitted work. All other authors declare no competing interests. ### Funding Statement This study was funded by grants from the Singapore National Medical Research Council (COVID19RF-001, COVID19RF-008). The funders had no role in the design and conduct of the study; collection, management, analysis and interpretation of the data; preparation, review or approval of the manuscript; and decision to submit the manuscript for publication. ### Author Declarations I confirm all relevant ethical guidelines have been followed, and any necessary IRB and/or ethics committee approvals have been obtained. Yes The details of the IRB/oversight body that provided approval or exemption for the research described are given below: Written informed consent was obtained from study participants of the multi-centre study approved by National Healthcare Group Domain Specific Review Board (NHG-DSRB) (Study Reference 2012/00917). Informed consent for retrospective data collection at National Centre for Infectious Diseases (NCID) was waived (NHG-DSRB reference number 2020/01122). All necessary patient/participant consent has been obtained and the appropriate institutional forms have been archived. Yes I understand that all clinical trials and any other prospective interventional studies must be registered with an ICMJE-approved registry, such as <http://ClinicalTrials.gov|ClinicalTrials.gov>. I confirm that any such study reported in the manuscript has been registered and the trial registration ID is provided (note: if posting a prospective study registered retrospectively, please provide a statement in the trial ID field explaining why the study was not registered in advance). Yes I have followed all appropriate research reporting guidelines and uploaded the relevant EQUATOR Network research reporting checklist(s) and other pertinent material as supplementary files, if applicable. Yes The datasets generated during and/or analysed during the current study are available from the corresponding author on reasonable request.

感謝chhsiao1981釋疑
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2021-08-25

Wisla Honora 10:55:17
@honoraglis has joined the channel
Alex 11:02:16
我很感謝此群夥伴包容我的無知,我提出的討論有可能是錯誤的觀點,也感謝有人願意提供相關訊息或指出其中問題。如果大家還願意討論的話,我就繼續請教這裡友善且邏輯清楚、有能力找出真相的夥伴,如果大家真的受不了了也請告訴我,我不會一直煩大家。
Cofacts可以處理?
我試試喔,謝謝提供。
我覺得你看到任何消息,都可以用關鍵字直接 google,第一項都會是 cdc 的清楚說明。上面的回應連結都是這樣來的。
確實可以把影片連結貼到 cofacts.tw 的搜尋框碰碰運氣~
Alex 11:03:25
接下來我要提的問題是,網路上有「疫苗的真相」影片,我原本以為很合理,但是否可以請教大家這影片是否有問題,幫我釐清,感謝。
此片我已在cofacts找到資料,等我消化完有需要再跟大家討論。
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Alex 17:17:06
請教這個影片的內容是否有問題,我在cofacts沒找到相關資料。
https://rumble.com/vkbrn7-20210722minya.html

Rumble

20210722MinYa與教師群討論會

新冠病毒的由來, 新冠疾病的病程, 病毒如何感染? 棘蛋白的危險性, AZ, Pfizer, Moderna疫苗作用原理的認識。 目前這三支疫苗真的能保護不受病毒感染嗎?

你可以打個逐字稿或者至少摘錄重點出來
不然要別人幫你看兩小時,摘要後再去查證,不太合理
可以去 cofacts 資料庫裡找找? cc @bil @mrorz
剛剛沒看到你在 cofacts 找過了😅
甚至更好的事摘要重點之後自己先查證,把查到的資料也附上,再請問其他人幫你查那些你查不到的部分。
你可以把影片裡聽到的東西傳到這個留言串,聽到一個就傳一個,不需要整個整理完再傳~之類的
@guo-jim 我查詢「https://rumble.com/vkbrn7-20210722minya.html」及「*MinYa與教師群討論會*」,你確定我沒找?
毓球錢理路 2021-08-26 08:40:15
還有人不知道冠狀病毒從武漢實驗室出來的?

2021-08-26

毓球錢理路 08:47:43
當主流媒體早就被菁英控制了,多少人能找出真相呢?
https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-08-04-bill-gates-partnered-ccp-conduct-coronavirus-research.html

NaturalNews.com

Bombshell: Bill Gates partnered with CCP group to conduct coronavirus gain-of-function research

For the past five years, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) via the National Natural Science Foundation (NSFC) of China has maintained a partnership with the Bill &amp; Melinda Gates Foundation [...]

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chhsiao1981 09:29:40
@zxc32496428

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_News

你所提供的 link 是非常右翼及反科學的團體的網站~

Natural News

Natural News (formerly NewsTarget, which is now a separate sister site) is a far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience, and far-right extremism.The site's founder, Michael Allen "Mike" Adams, gained attention after posting a blog entry implying a call for violence against proponents of GMO foods, and then allegedly creating another website with a list of names of alleged supporters. He has been accused of using "pseudoscience to sell his lies". Adams has described vaccines as "medical child abuse".The website sells various dietary supplements, promotes alternative medicine and climate change denial, makes tendentious nutrition and health claims, disseminates fake news, and espouses various conspiracy theories and pro-Donald Trump propaganda. These conspiracy theories include chemophobic claims about the purported dangers of "chemtrails", fluoridated drinking water, anti-perspirants, laundry detergent, monosodium glutamate, aspartame, and vaccines. It has also spread conspiracy theories about the Zika virus allegedly being spread by genetically modified mosquitoes and purported adverse effects of genetically modified crops, as well as the farming practices associated with and foods derived from <http://them.As|them.As> of 2014, Natural News had approximately 7 million unique visitors per <http://month.In|month.In> May 2020, Facebook banned Natural News content from its platform after discovering that the site was boosting its popularity using content farms in North Macedonia and the Philippines, a form of spamming. Natural News bypassed the ban by republishing its content on a large number of topic-specific domain names, including trump.news, extinction.news, mind.control.news, and veggie.news. The Institute for Strategic Dialogue found 496 domain names associated with Natural News as of June 2020.

毓球錢理路 09:36:49
挖歐...竟然從維基百科找真相~難怪
你知道媒體系統就是洛克菲勒家族搞得嗎?😂
毓球錢理路 09:46:43
有想過醫療系統&食品系統的頂層關西嗎?
醫療進步這麼多依然一堆人慢性病,去醫院的人沒減少反而越來越多🤔
吃太多垃圾食物、基因改造產品影響身體機能和免疫系統,6成的人前半輩子的錢貢獻給後半輩子看醫生~
chhsiao1981 10:04:58
@zxc32496428

你的文章裡很明確的出現
“Another one of Satan’s operatives, both him and Soros,” one of our commenters wrote about Bill Gates.

這種會出現 “Satan” 的句子大致上是右翼反科學宗教團體所使用的句子~

會希望這個 channel 裡所討論的是根據科學 paper 的結果所做的討論~
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kingman 10:14:55
複雜環境交互影響的結果,可以簡單歸咎於單一原因...
不論是身體健康、亦或是醫療與群體疾病控制...

--
醫療不好的年代,少有長期、慢性病,因為根本不可能活這麼久...
chhsiao1981 10:31:23
@alex0952541263

你的影片裡關於疫苗的部分~ 似乎是指 mRNA 疫苗裡的 mRNA 可能會跑進人的 DNA 裡~
paper 是以下這篇:

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/21/e2105968118
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.12.422516v1.full

我不是生物相關專業~ 沒有辦法回答太多~
不過影片裡提到的 paper 是指“他們在實驗室裡利用人工製造的胚胎腎臟細胞加上很多特殊處理以後.
並且使用活的 COVID-19 病毒攻擊而得到的結果“~

跟 mRNA 疫苗產生的過程完全不一樣~

bioRxiv

SARS-CoV-2 RNA reverse-transcribed and integrated into the human genome

Prolonged SARS-CoV-2 RNA shedding and recurrence of PCR-positive tests have been widely reported in patients after recovery, yet these patients most commonly are non-infectious[1][1]–[14][2]. Here we investigated the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 RNAs can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the human genome and that transcription of the integrated sequences might account for PCR-positive tests. In support of this hypothesis, we found chimeric transcripts consisting of viral fused to cellular sequences in published data sets of SARS-CoV-2 infected cultured cells and primary cells of patients, consistent with the transcription of viral sequences integrated into the genome. To experimentally corroborate the possibility of viral retro-integration, we describe evidence that SARS-CoV-2 RNAs can be reverse transcribed in human cells by reverse transcriptase (RT) from LINE-1 elements or by HIV-1 RT, and that these DNA sequences can be integrated into the cell genome and subsequently be transcribed. Human endogenous LINE-1 expression was induced upon SARS-CoV-2 infection or by cytokine exposure in cultured cells, suggesting a molecular mechanism for SARS-CoV-2 retro-integration in patients. This novel feature of SARS-CoV-2 infection may explain why patients can continue to produce viral RNA after recovery and suggests a new aspect of RNA virus replication. ### Competing Interest Statement The authors have declared no competing interest. [1]: #ref-1 [2]: #ref-14

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Peter 14:48:50
我自己覺得最近的討論跟端傳媒昨天發的一篇報導有相關,也就是所謂的疫苗猶豫。對於疫苗猶豫,台大教授官晨怡認為政府的風險溝通可以在加強,尤其是要觀察不同社群(如老人)產生疑慮的原因,再用不同的方式一一克服
👍 4
chhsiao1981 19:22:51
@alex0952541263

另外如果你對於 mRNA 疫苗有疑慮的話~
你可以選擇打高端~

就數據上來說~ 高端其實並沒有比 AZ 差~
並且是使用大家所熟悉的方式製造出來~

就釋昭慧法師的這篇 post~
也大致上可以知道高端的不良反應的比例真的有明顯比 AZ / 莫德納的情形低很多~

https://www.facebook.com/chaohwei/posts/10158722966483409

(在超過 20 萬人的數據下~ 這樣子的數據大致上是趨於穩定了~)

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Observational comparisons can easily draw incorrect conclusions when not controlling for factors such as:
1. *reporting period* (高端 ~3 days vs. AZ/Moderna > 3 months)
2. *age* (e.g. for AZ/Moderna: reported death rate for people >65 years old is 25 times higher than people <50)
3. *occupational and behavioral risks*
4. *pre-existing health conditions* (e.g. 第九類 skews towards AZ/Moderna)
If we only correct for age, and only look at people under 50 years old: 高端 has a reported death rate of 133-200% (in 3 days) vs. AZ/Moderna (over 3 months)

• 高端 = 3 deaths in 3 days / estimated 20-30萬 shots for people under 50 (第一輪高端預約為 36-65歲)
• AZ/Moderna = 30 deaths in 3 months / 400萬 shots (source)
That being said, there’s too short of reporting time and too little data at the moment.
chhsiao1981 2021-08-26 21:04:39
目前所發生的“死亡案例“~
都只能說是在接種後發生的情形~
這跟“某個人吃完飯以後發生意外“是一樣的描述~

並不能直接認定這些死亡案例都是因為接種疫苗以後導致的~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3ucQJNTNTc
chhsiao1981 2021-08-26 21:06:06
@profmikechen
None of the 3 + 30 reported deaths (or ~99.9% of all reported adverse events) have been confirmed to be associated with vaccination.

I’m only using it illustrate that the conclusion “不良反應的比例真的有明顯比 AZ / 莫德納的情形低很多” is not scientifically valid without correcting for (at least) the factors I mentioned.
chhsiao1981 2021-08-26 21:13:08
@profmikechen

釋昭慧那篇的 report 是沒有考慮到 age 這些 confounders~
剛剛林氏壁也是說要用年齡區間下去比,還要排除背景值的其他不相關數據 ex. 意外傷害等...
Now that there has been 2 weeks of reported data on Medigen, let’s update the death rate stats:

*Summary*: for people <50yrs old, 高端 currently has a _reported death rate_ that is *213%* of AZ/Moderna, even with a much shorter reporting window (16 days vs. ~3 months).

• 高端 = 8 deaths in _16 days_ of reporting / estimated 50萬 shots for people <50yrs out of a total of