#holopolis
2017-12-01
How about Wednesdays?
11pm tues ET?
- ā 1
also, hello!
is this the main entry point for technical people interested in holopolis btw? https://github.com/PDIS/holopolis
GitHub 
Tuesday, Wed, both are fine with me
- ā 2
yes. and most scrips are for running in High Fidelity
Patrick Connolly
11pm tues ET?
have 3 conference calls on Wednesday noon(12pm-3). one monthly team meeting on Wednesday morning. Monday, Tuesday works for me.
Yay! Thx @sylin! I have access to a great vr rig at hacklab.to, so going to try to make myself useful at some point :)
1
super excited to see you here!
@david has joined the channel
VR rig is almost set up at Orbital! Weāll be able to checkout the space in hifi soon
Sweet! so itās gonna be up and running. are there any docs/write-ups on how we start tapping into your hifi server? We can finally try out what yāall have been jamming on 
2017-12-02
is happy to contribute to docs if ppl just want to drop advice in here
(oh man, i love you, boogie-penguin )
)
@patcon if you get an hifi account, I can add you to our server
https://highfidelity.com/
then you can go ahead enter <HiFi://plurality>
https://highfidelity.com/
then you can go ahead enter <HiFi://plurality>
either through the browser (which should lead you to the download page) or download the Interface directly
https://highfidelity.com/download
https://highfidelity.com/download
My mac air from 2015 can run Interface, but for editing/implementation, a VR-rady computer is recommended
- ā 1
Quick overview by Audrey on scripting in High Fidelity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VoALOeoBHo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VoALOeoBHo
YouTube - š1
is happy to contribute to docs if ppl just want to drop advice in here
2017-12-03
Omg yay!
forgot to report here, but for anyone interested, some discussion in #intl about attending Rightcons 2018 in Toronto in May: https://g0v-tw.slack.com/archives/C084CU74J/p1512115608000254
some ppl already attending from tw, it seems :slightly_smiling_face:
some ppl already attending from tw, it seems :slightly_smiling_face:
A little last minute, but RightsCon 2018 is happening in mid may, and proposals due by end of day Dec 4...! But the topics all seem very aligned with g0v projects and topics that have already being tackled by community :)
https://www.rightscon.org/submission-guidelines/
2017-12-04
from here: https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/t/background-of-holopolis/3956
> *Our team* consists of developers, designers and researchers who work together and share ideas and prototypes for reinventing democracy.
I suspect an interested newcomer might be wondering "who is this team"? Is there one or more places where we can direct people (or aggregate from) to help them understand that better? (I recognize that affiliations are loose :slightly_smiling_face: )
- this chat room member list
- github committers to our 2 repos
- participants in github issues
- other places?
> *Our team* consists of developers, designers and researchers who work together and share ideas and prototypes for reinventing democracy.
I suspect an interested newcomer might be wondering "who is this team"? Is there one or more places where we can direct people (or aggregate from) to help them understand that better? (I recognize that affiliations are loose :slightly_smiling_face: )
- this chat room member list
- github committers to our 2 repos
- participants in github issues
- other places?
PDIS å ¬éčØč«å
å°ę”čµ·ęŗ / Background Taiwan has been experimenting with bringing citizens and government together in a civic deliberation process for crafting digital legislation. Our process, vTaiwan, brings people directly into governance and helps lawmakers implement decisions with a greater degree of legitimacy. We see our project as an adaptable and reproducible prototype for future democracy. It is our priority to support all people in participating fully and freely. We have utilized the power of web and...
ok, so i'm trying to orient with development process so that I can help write orientation docs -- quick question: does the team spend significant amounts of time engaging with the hifi dev community in their own channels? if so, which ones? They have quite the system, incl their own bug trackers and micro-contract system, and chat channels, so I'm curious how important it is to understand :slightly_smiling_face:
i'm working my way through the holopolis and high fidelity docs and forums, and a couple thoughts so far:
1. would making participation in polis conversations (ie. reflective phase of ORID) more tactile and kinesthetic fall within the holopolis mandate, perhaps as a related sub-project?
I am recently thinking about how to allow a room of people who are convened to better understand the "fault lines" amongst themselves, prior to engaging in conversation and attempts to move forward. I am imagining an early exercise in the convening (perhaps aided by prior step of establishing digital identities via an app or a lanyard with RFIDs or some such support tech). There would then be 3 spots along edges of room (equally spaced apart), labelled as Agree/Disagree/Pass. A wall projector shows statements, and people move as they feel. They pass people regularly, and see who tends to be in their group, and who doesn't. Perhaps the "Pass" station has a place where folks can pause and enter improved statements. The polis visualization projected on a wall updates and moves around as people go about the exercise. The results could then be a grounding for later discussion, perhaps involving colored identifiers, so people have clarity on which tribe they're interacting with. And the facilitators could intentionally bring certain opinion groups together for some parts of discussion, but separate them for others -- perhaps even playing with dynamics in novel ways, like introducing a single of one group into a mob of others, but with all parties knowing that this person represents a different view, and so trying to integrate their perspective, but without feeling the "threat" of their numbers that sometimes might come into play.
I am recently thinking about how to allow a room of people who are convened to better understand the "fault lines" amongst themselves, prior to engaging in conversation and attempts to move forward. I am imagining an early exercise in the convening (perhaps aided by prior step of establishing digital identities via an app or a lanyard with RFIDs or some such support tech). There would then be 3 spots along edges of room (equally spaced apart), labelled as Agree/Disagree/Pass. A wall projector shows statements, and people move as they feel. They pass people regularly, and see who tends to be in their group, and who doesn't. Perhaps the "Pass" station has a place where folks can pause and enter improved statements. The polis visualization projected on a wall updates and moves around as people go about the exercise. The results could then be a grounding for later discussion, perhaps involving colored identifiers, so people have clarity on which tribe they're interacting with. And the facilitators could intentionally bring certain opinion groups together for some parts of discussion, but separate them for others -- perhaps even playing with dynamics in novel ways, like introducing a single of one group into a mob of others, but with all parties knowing that this person represents a different view, and so trying to integrate their perspective, but without feeling the "threat" of their numbers that sometimes might come into play.
is helping convene a consultation on Tuesday about Google developing a chunk of downtown Toronto, and this would be really rad for that, but I don't think there's time :)
also related to above, i feel very inspired by some folks who @itsmisscs and @darshana introduced @lizbarry and I to -- Complex Movements: https://vimeo.com/233329636
Vimeo
Complex Movements at Eyeo 2017 | Hyper Local High Tech | (Complex Movements: Invincible-ill Weaver, L05, Sage Crump & Wesley Taylor) Complex Movements shares insights from their project Beware of the Dandelions which is a mobile art installation that functions as a multimedia performance, a community organizing process, and oral history video archive. The piece intersects disciplines including: community organizing, design, hip-hop and electronic music, architecture, and theater. Complex Movements engages communities to expand their strategies for organizing around local and trans-local social justice issues. @cmplxmvmnts @eyeofestival
they have a immersive experience that involves narrative and interaction from tracking participant movements within their specially-designed staging enclosure. It seems that perhaps there could be shared resources between something as described above, and the amazing work that they're doing
and lastly:
2. I've been thinking on other ways that the final pol.is artifact -- the 2d visualization, could be made more engaging and explorable. I know that you're all thinking deeply on that too
2. I've been thinking on other ways that the final pol.is artifact -- the 2d visualization, could be made more engaging and explorable. I know that you're all thinking deeply on that too
i got think about how the opinion groups could be rendered, conveying the right vibe -- distinct and separated, but part of a coherent community
i've always had a love for cul-de-sacs in my hometown. the folks who lived on them always seemed to be extremely close to one another. it's a very intimate arrangement of homes:
https://static.shortoftheweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Culdesacmain.jpg
https://static.shortoftheweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Culdesacmain.jpg
i was wondering whether opinion groups could procedurally generate a cul-de-sac that people could explore after the fact. perhaps participants could spend time thinking about which objects represented the views that were distinct about their opinion group, and decorate their "home" with objects that could be explored and linked to help "visitors" understand where they are coming from
and further, if we want to expose sub-clusters within the statistical clusters of the opinion groups, that might relate nicely to the rooms in the home (though I'm not sure that would work as nicely... i don't understand the hierarchical clustering algo that well)
Rhythm
Improving collaboration and team effectiveness with innovative open-source measurement and feedback tools. Ā In the Rhythm project, we partner with companies and educational institutions to measure and augment human interaction in real time, leading to better group decision-making, trust, and engage
Cool, our service designer Fang-Jui will prob submit a workshop to Rightcons šš½
forgot to report here, but for anyone interested, some discussion in #intl about attending Rightcons 2018 in Toronto in May: https://g0v-tw.slack.com/archives/C084CU74J/p1512115608000254
some ppl already attending from tw, it seems :slightly_smiling_face:
- 1
2017-12-05
added a link at āteamā
from here: https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/t/background-of-holopolis/3956
> *Our team* consists of developers, designers and researchers who work together and share ideas and prototypes for reinventing democracy.
I suspect an interested newcomer might be wondering "who is this team"? Is there one or more places where we can direct people (or aggregate from) to help them understand that better? (I recognize that affiliations are loose :slightly_smiling_face: )
- this chat room member list
- github committers to our 2 repos
- participants in github issues
- other places?
@patcon do you have edit permission to our discourse?
I don't š
@patcon create an account https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/ š
oh waitā¦you are there already
welcome to the admin group š
yay! thanks @sylin! with great power comes great responsa-bumblebee š (or something like that)
I don't š
@patcon create an account https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/ š
oh waitā¦you are there already
- š1
Beautiful. I feel myself too naive most of the time š
https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/t/martijn-de-waal/4015
https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/t/martijn-de-waal/4015
[image] Martijn is a writer and researcher focusing on the relation between digital media and urban culture. He gives lecture of Play and Civic Media at the Amsterdam University. He also coined the term "Urban Media" in his book "The City as Interface". Urban Media: a collective term describes media that influence the experience of a physical location Text messages that allows us to make last minutes changes of meet-ups; navigation systems that helps us to find the best route; social medi...
welcome to the admin group š
yay! thanks @sylin! with great power comes great responsa-bumblebee š (or something like that)
@chingchen ęåę³ęä¹ååØ馬德é present ēäøå project ååÆ«äøēÆ write-up, ęÆå¦čŖŖ ååęåÆ«äŗéēÆ https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/t/holopolis-mr/5096, ę³åä½ ęę²ęę³č¦åÆ« bot ē ---> https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/t/holopolis-bot/5095 (äøč±é½åÆļ¼
- š1
2017-12-06
@sylin did anyone from holopolis have time to submit a RightsCon session proposal? š
no
- š1
should we ?
Can't make time for everything :)
yep š
Heh deadline was last night, unfortunately, so was a bit of a hustle in #intl
PDIS submitted a service design workshop
Yay! Tagalong?
Fang-Jui and
me
š
I will see if I can drum up holopolis interest/contributors in the meantime over here ;)
yay
let us know
- š1
OK, tis late, but have a wonderful ~night~ day!
š»
2017-12-07
@sylin re: https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/t/started-trello-board/4063/5?u=patcon
sorry, do you mean that I can make _new_ public boards, or that the existing private boards can be made public?? def don't want to overstep here :slightly_smiling_face:
sorry, do you mean that I can make _new_ public boards, or that the existing private boards can be made public?? def don't want to overstep here :slightly_smiling_face:
Welcome to the :hole: Feel free to do whatever, add more members or make the Trello board public.
and re: https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/t/contributors/5112?u=patcon
would others be intersted in co-maintaining a graph like this if I created it? (it would be based on timezones at first, but could be updated if we discover otherwise through convo):
https://graphcommons.com/graphs/d6693b08-a025-439d-a813-d508f40c838b
would others be intersted in co-maintaining a graph like this if I created it? (it would be based on timezones at first, but could be updated if we discover otherwise through convo):
https://graphcommons.com/graphs/d6693b08-a025-439d-a813-d508f40c838b
Members in Slack #holopolis channel naxus, sylin, chingchen, itsmisscs, dzn, herman_wu, patcon, markdai, au, colinmegill, billy3321, ralflin, Avross, fang, isacl, kjwu, leo424y, nucell, Peterlee, rachaello, ryoshirai, yasuakikakehi, čرčå Github committers XanxusX, shuyanglin, targeeey
@patcon Since you are admin, I would say you can do what you think make sense. š just for the record, I think itās okay to have trello board public.
@sylin re: https://talk.pdis.nat.gov.tw/t/started-trello-board/4063/5?u=patcon
sorry, do you mean that I can make _new_ public boards, or that the existing private boards can be made public?? def don't want to overstep here :slightly_smiling_face:
heh, thank you thank you! i totally appreciate the trust, but i usually will opt for a sense of consensus or clarity to be on the safe side...!
for example, when i look up and see the little Trello button saying "Team Visible", I sometimes imagine it as a social contract -- "ok, now i'm speaking in a small room of people, as opposed to on broadcast radio" -- and speak accordingly. I wouldn't want to change that on folks without confirming š (Trello auto-exposes public boards in Google results afaict)
for example, when i look up and see the little Trello button saying "Team Visible", I sometimes imagine it as a social contract -- "ok, now i'm speaking in a small room of people, as opposed to on broadcast radio" -- and speak accordingly. I wouldn't want to change that on folks without confirming š (Trello auto-exposes public boards in Google results afaict)
ah, just joined this board: https://trello.com/b/OdEAyPsI/high-fidelity
@sylin seems i need to be *board admin* (as opposed to "team admin") before I can publicize, if you could help me with that!
@sylin seems i need to be *board admin* (as opposed to "team admin") before I can publicize, if you could help me with that!
@naxus actually, seems that you are the only board admin, so this would need your help š
@patcon done!
you da best!
@naxus actually, seems that you are the only board admin, so this would need your help š
@patcon done!
fyi, I'd been working on my own board for "onboarding", so I moved it over -- it's still a work-in-progress (WIP), but let me know if you have any thoughts: https://trello.com/b/3akBP3jg/holopolis-onboarding
Trello
Trello is the visual collaboration platform that gives teams perspective on projects. Use Trello to collaborate, communicate and coordinate on all of your projects.
(or if it tramples on the territory of some other docs!)
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This is awesome!
you da best!
Anyone have a translation for this?
> Brainstorm åØ HiFi č£”é¢ēē°å¢č¦é·ęęØ£
Is it: "Brainstorm inside the HiFi environment"?
> Brainstorm åØ HiFi č£”é¢ēē°å¢č¦é·ęęØ£
Is it: "Brainstorm inside the HiFi environment"?
> å
ęåŗę¬ēå “ęÆååŗä¾
"Make a basic scene"?
"Make a basic scene"?
āmake a draft environment/scene firstā
haha, these two are done
quote from you in metapolis, āYou are all making my life infinitely better and more exciting by bringing all this magic into existence!ā
- š1
āmake a draft environment/scene firstā
> å ęåŗę¬ēå “ęÆååŗä¾
"Make a basic scene"?
āmake a draft environment/scene firstā
2017-12-08
Omg I just used HiFi for the first time with a Vive and it was amaaaaaazing!
i canāt wait to do this next week at the vr station at orbital!
as soon as i came in, this woman named... oh no! i forget her name! -- anyhow, she was so helpful and got me set up on my controller and change some settings and it made the place feel super-friendly!
LETS HANG OUT IN VR THIS IS GOING TO BE GREAT. keep me posted when you're thinking about doing it!
yayayayayayayayayay.
I have been looking for people to hangout in vr since september :))))))))))))
I have been looking for people to hangout in vr since september :))))))))))))
Haha wooooo! I'm only around the gear for another week, then on holidays and not back in Toronto till mid January
Has anyone been talking about using hifi to simulate the experience of the vtaiwan process or variations of it?
I've been thinking on an in-person experience for a reflective phase that could be more tactile and mobile, basically having participants wear a Rhythm badge (http://www.rhythm.mit.edu/rhythm-badges] and move around a physical space to indicate agreement or not, and seeing on a projected surface the polis conversation as it evolves
I'd love to simulate the experiece of a participant, starting from the walk downstairs into a church basement, to maybe build buy-in before building anything real :)
Might this be a decent holopolis project?
Might this be a decent holopolis project?
dig the š³ļø , patcon
š
i canāt wait to do this next week at the vr station at orbital!
dig the š³ļø , patcon
š
- ā¤ļø1
as soon as i came in, this woman named... oh no! i forget her name! -- anyhow, she was so helpful and got me set up on my controller and change some settings and it made the place feel super-friendly!
LETS HANG OUT IN VR THIS IS GOING TO BE GREAT. keep me posted when you're thinking about doing it!
we can try after renaming KMT to something else lol
Haha yeah, I've been reading their stuff and visiting around, and I feel they've been doing their process waaaaay too much in high ivory towers -- closed source software, no internet-based peer production communities working on the process development itself, etc etc.
It totally doesn't surprise me that they've been toiling for almost 20 years on this amazing system with no big bang moment...!
I'm sure we'd tune lots of things if it was worth using!
It totally doesn't surprise me that they've been toiling for almost 20 years on this amazing system with no big bang moment...!
I'm sure we'd tune lots of things if it was worth using!
2017-12-09
we can try after renaming KMT to something else lol
- š1
yayayayayayayayayay.
I have been looking for people to hangout in vr since september :))))))))))))
I have been looking for people to hangout in vr since september :))))))))))))
Haha wooooo! I'm only around the gear for another week, then on holidays and not back in Toronto till mid January
Haha yeah, I've been reading their stuff and visiting around, and I feel they've been doing their process waaaaay too much in high ivory towers -- closed source software, no internet-based peer production communities working on the process development itself, etc etc.
It totally doesn't surprise me that they've been toiling for almost 20 years on this amazing system with no big bang moment...!
I'm sure we'd tune lots of things if it was worth using!
It totally doesn't surprise me that they've been toiling for almost 20 years on this amazing system with no big bang moment...!
I'm sure we'd tune lots of things if it was worth using!
<!here> i know the time changed, but any chance anyone wants to do a meeting in 40 minutes? I am so set up for VR right now!
- š1
2017-12-11
This is awesome!
@naxus letās steal oculus or vive from auās table to SIL/TAF ?
- 1
- š1
- ā 1
2017-12-12
got to play with vive today. next up, trying out holopolis!
- š1
looks like iāll be around this week so maybe i can give it a shot at orbital
Do we have a server running, btw? I think a"domain" its called?
yes, there is one
2017-12-13
Cool! Know the name offhand?
@sylin ^^
Plurality
- š1
OK, seems that in order to visit "plurality", we need to compile our client instead of using the steam version? Is that expected? Are we using bleeding edge features? Might we want a server that's more visitable more easily by normals, even this early on?
I can prob sort out compiling from master, but the VR station is 1) windows, for which I don't have much experience, and 2) not really mine, so I hope not to install too much stuff :)
I can prob sort out compiling from master, but the VR station is 1) windows, for which I don't have much experience, and 2) not really mine, so I hope not to install too much stuff :)
Oh I think itās server version dismatch
We havenāt update to the latest one yet
- š1
2017-12-14
@hychen has joined the channel
@pm5 has joined the channel
@chingchen Hychen ę£åØé²č”å¦äøåčēč°é”čØč«ēå°ę”ļ¼å°å¦³ē bot ęčč¶£, č½čµ·ä¾ä»ååÆč½ęé²äøę„éå° user å³åē reply å ORID labelingļ¼ä¹å°±ęÆéå°åč¦åäŗåƦćęåćę³ę³ćę±ŗå®ååęØčØćåÆč½ęę³č·ä½ ååøēæēäŗę
ęÆā¦ ę„å¾ę„ä½ åē api å§ (?!)
č· vTaiwan é”ä¼¼, ä½ęåäø»č¦ęÆčēē§ęęæēļ¼ē¶å¾ęÆå
åäøåč½å° PDF, ē¶²é å crowdsourcing labeling ēå·„å
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ē®åä¹åØē ē©¶ęéŗ¼å»åčŖåęØčØ
ē®åä¹åØē ē©¶ęéŗ¼å»åčŖåęØčØ
@hychen ēä½ č¦äøč¦č£å
äøäøļ¼ęåä¹åÆ仄ē“åęé concall
@sylin may I ask how the HiFi server is provisioned and updated? Is it done manually, or might there be a scripted deploy process? Either way, is it documented? And who has access to server SSH to ask questions of?
Thanks so much! Just curious to know whether I can participate in helping to upgrade :)
Thanks so much! Just curious to know whether I can participate in helping to upgrade :)
allow me to forward to šš½ @au and @naxus
it is a GCE server running in ChangHwa, Taiwan. at the moment itās done manually but I can see a better scripted deployment as possibility. naxus and me have access.
@au Cool. Thanks! I work with Chef configuration management tool, so if helpful, i could prototype a package ("cookbook" in chef parlance) to manage the server. Or I could learn whatever tool GCE prefers to use [EDIT: oh! google cloud engine. nevermind :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: ]
Pls let me know :slightly_smiling_face:
Pls let me know :slightly_smiling_face:
č· vTaiwan é”ä¼¼, ä½ęåäø»č¦ęÆčēē§ęęæēļ¼ē¶å¾ęÆå
åäøåč½å° PDF, ē¶²é å crowdsourcing labeling ēå·„å
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ē®åä¹åØē ē©¶ęéŗ¼å»åčŖåęØčØ
2017-12-15
@patcon Iāve just upgraded the server.
- šÆ2
Thank you so much! I'll be back in Toronto with access to VR gear in mid-January! Yeow!
Replied to a thread: 2017-12-15 11:33:07
Thank you so much! I'll be back in Toronto with access to VR gear in mid-January! Yeow!
2017-12-18
just came across an NYC Media Lab program, and thought there might be some students in NYC who could be interested in using holopolis as a starting point for one of these (or future) VR/AR prototyping projects: http://nycmedialab.org/prototyping-projects/
NYC Media Lab
Founded in 2010, NYC Media Lab is dedicated to driving innovation and ultimately job growth in media and technology by facilitating collaboration between the Cityās universities and its companies.
2017-12-21
The Verge
After more than three years, Magic Leap has unveiled what it describes as a "creator edition" of its augmented reality system. The Magic Leap One consists of a pair of oversized cyberpunk-y...
- š¤1
2017-12-25
Shall we have holopolis meeting in vr this friday? 
I'm still away from my vr gear until mid-january, but I'd still love to try to join somehow! What time?
++ same. i do love this idea! we finally have a VR setup in nyc šš¾
Gosh! If we can do this on a regular basis would be SUPER cool.
but yeah.. Iām on the road and no access to VR gear
Bump. Timing? I recall the posted time not being correct anymore :)
2017-12-27
I'm still away from my vr gear until mid-january, but I'd still love to try to join somehow! What time?
++ same. i do love this idea! we finally have a VR setup in nyc šš¾
2017-12-29
How to breathe in VR https://vimeo.com/233011474
Ignite Talks at Eyeo 2017 Mariya Mishurenko "How to Breathe in VR" We joined creative forces with researcher, activist and breathing teacher hannes bend and Miami-Dade University to make a VR experience with biofeedback about rising sea levels. The main input for the interaction was supposed to be the breathing of the user. We tested a pile of sensors (including a real radar!) and overcame tough challenges. We came to some important conclusions that can save the creative professionals ton of time and money if they ever decide to use breathing sensors for creative purposes. @marmishurenko @eyeofestival
Gosh! If we can do this on a regular basis would be SUPER cool.
but yeah.. Iām on the road and no access to VR gear
^sweeet!!
- š¤1
forgot about it! found it while documenting our other talks.
forgot about it! found it while documenting our other talks.
2017-12-30
Replied to a thread: 2017-12-25 21:23:22
Bump. Timing? I recall the posted time not being correct anymore :)
@lisa has joined the channel