Month: 2017-12


lizbarry 03:10:14
Unrelated: @patcon re models for open source projects, see Nobel Prize economic theorist Elinor Ostrom's "8 principles for managing the commons" (cc @greggish in hopes of reviving the content on that deleted RiseUp etherpad)
Interestingly, her wikipedia page contains the nugget that her early 60's writing was on "The organization of government in metropolitan areas" -- so relevant to us here!
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dzn 03:13:45
Funny you say, @lizbarry. I recently started reading her governing the commons book. Haven鈥檛 gotten very far, already sooo much we can learn from her work. Highly recommended.
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patcon 10:56:32
heyo! I'll be makingmy way online with y'all between 9-10am, and I'll be available until around 1pm 馃檪
itsmisscs 22:27:07
@darshana @patcon @lizbarry ^^
dzn 22:53:34
@patcon finding you
dzn 23:05:14
tell us where
patcon 23:05:19
Omw upstairs to get settled in toronto. Maybe 10 main. Don't wait up!
dzn 23:05:24
patcon 23:41:45
are we in here:

Video conversations with up to 8 people for free - no login, no downloads. Create a video room. Share the link. Appear together. Try it now at <>

patcon 23:48:45
@lizbarry <!here> i can't call you when you're in DND mode :P
lizbarry 23:57:20
lizbarry 23:57:31


patcon 00:37:21
rightscon policy on ticket exemptions:
patcon 00:37:57
<!here> give what to who?
itsmisscs 00:42:13


New York: The Pious Alternative to Evil Silicon Valley?

A billboard in the heart of Silicon Valley declaims the evils of the region and touts the virtues of New York.

itsmisscs 00:42:32
@patcon ^^ what i vented on
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patcon 01:28:14
the holopolis realtimeboard as example:
patcon 01:45:11
whoa. i never see it with such suited up people. not sure what was happening there...
patcon 01:46:11
cool layout, in that council chambers are in the "nest" of city hall:

itsmisscs 01:52:24
Discourse group for conversations:

Composites Collective

Resilient Conversations

Online collective commons

patcon 02:02:43
<!here> can someone take photos of all the boards for realtimeboard before heading out?
patcon 02:46:47
the book! gotta go! late! yeow!
lizbarry 04:40:12
this is a great contemporary call to act

Intelligent Mischief



patcon 08:26:31
re: the book. bianca (consultation-friend) and I had conversations last year while myself and @derekhoward ( collaborator) were pursuing using vtaiwan-like processes in toronto -- at the time it felt like working with designers to develop a common visual language around the phases of the consultation (from the book, but meshed with vtaiwan practices),as part of an open toolkit of sorts.

the thinking was that this would allow people to understand the process and their place in it, even between consultations organized by different people. it felt like a really great place to include designers and their skills.

we never went any further than that discussion though, but i'd love to re-open if others here think it might be helpful -- seems like that piece could provide a logical segmentation of work? 馃檪


lizbarry 22:53:52
Sounds good to me, people need support to learn how to do this stuff. Toolkit/curriculum whatever's clever
lizbarry 22:54:27
Hey I'll be "study hall" this afternoon if anyone wants to pool our collective motivation
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lizbarry 02:17:55
Yesterday's "On the Media" podcast covered the DDOSing of public comment in their "public comment is broken" session , the writer of is very articulate
Also see this PDF to public comment in the US:


Public Comment is Broken

How聽the rise of bots is giving officials cover to ignore聽citizens.

itsmisscs 23:58:07

Jitsi Meet

Join a WebRTC video conference powered by the Jitsi Videobridge

itsmisscs 23:58:30
no video for me today. sick.
dzn 23:58:43
oh no
dzn 23:58:47
can you hear me?
itsmisscs 23:58:56
itsmisscs 23:59:06
you aren鈥檛 showing up as in the room
dzn 23:59:18
dzn 23:59:26
no one else in mine
itsmisscs 23:59:33
the link i posted?
dzn 23:59:33
I clicked the link you sent me
dzn 23:59:36
itsmisscs 23:59:42
so weird lol


itsmisscs 00:00:10
i see you
dzn 00:00:28
did you hear the strange audio
patcon 04:26:09
@darshana @itsmisscs is it cool if i tentatively merge this? (I realize it might need fixups, but perhaps we could do that asap after?)

I found some other folks in toronto who are diving into and consultations today, and I was hoping to share the README link to orient them to our efforts. right now, this is better than nothing, right? (really eager to re-energize a crew in toronto around this)


Stub out a Get Involved section for README by patcon 路 Pull Request #6 路 g0vNYC/hub

Could use a picky once-over, but thinking something is better than nothing, and didn't want to delay again. is the email in the code of conduct the right one? is there a public kanban board we cou...

patcon 04:29:59
actually, in light of this, i'd love to revisit:
1. openning up trello org as public
2. openning up our active sprint boards for others to orient and participate

are these two things that would be straightforward to do today without much added worked?
itsmisscs 04:50:50
@patcon by all means feel free to merge
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itsmisscs 04:52:01
as for sprints, i think it may be easier to create a new board and we鈥檒l move our things over (@darshana weigh in here). as it stands, we鈥檙e working on things that can be public but not certain how we鈥檇 pull in others.
thanks! is it ok to be public with stuff even though we don't know how to integrate people? i wonder if maybe letting people see will allow them to know how to best engage (connecting people, understanding how other projects/initiatives might fit, etc), without much burden on us?
Ah, to live a life without fear of being scooped -- a goal!!!!!
what about things that you don鈥檛 want to integrate people on 馃槢
overall i think public is always good because people can help or offer input
Totally. What if we made lists of those necessarily private spaces? EDGI imho took a really rad approach of saying for some convos (and this was all internal, mind you): "private things within this org are totally cool, but if you have private channels or private google drives or whatever, let's document them and their purpose and who started them so that they're legible"

I am interested in all of this, but particularly curious about the proto-government angle, and so will prob always ask for temperature checks to that end :)
itsmisscs 04:52:23
we鈥檝e talked about the need to spend some time putting together areas where others can participate
itsmisscs 04:52:38
which led us to an extensive planning session
itsmisscs 04:54:12
results of that session are still not super concrete, i.e. what are we focusing on/looking into
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katenicholson 08:09:26
@katehnicholson has joined the channel


itsmisscs 23:40:59
Sadly pro-bono but still
So bittersweet! Engagement: yay! Explicitly defined to not compensate: sad panda.
katenicholson 23:47:52
just sent in, thanks! curious to see what they鈥檙e up to.
I am, too. Let me know what you hear back. Do you know anyone from the team?
katenicholson 2017-12-08 00:18:03
I do鈥 Emily Herrick. (Just realizing :) )
katenicholson 2017-12-08 00:20:09
Maybe she wants to join up on Sunday. Sending her a note.
fantastic! i鈥檒l get an agenda going today that you can share out. feel free to come for all or part of the discussion.
katenicholson 2017-12-08 00:24:52
Terrific, thanks sounds good


itsmisscs 04:08:07
@darshana just when we were thinking of pateron everyone is up in 馃敟 about recent changes


itsmisscs 01:45:52
@darshana how was the event yesterday? we were hoping to see the conclusion but the stream stopped after the intro
Haven't watched it yet, but I discovered there was a second feed! (can't pause maybe?)
oh you found it!!
dzn 01:59:07
The event went really well. The best so far. Having people actually attend makes a huge difference. Your question was spot on though. Slido only works of it is being displayed the entire time. People don't use it to ask questions otherwise. They did the survey but didn't ask questions. Important for next time!
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dzn 02:01:58
Also, some excellent leads
dzn 02:02:25
Image uploaded from iOS
dzn 02:02:40
Met her ^^
dzn 02:03:19
Works at the PB place and she wants to meet and plot
dzn 02:03:26
She is great
itsmisscs 02:04:57
Yay! awesome. Josh Lerner鈥檚 crew
she is very interested in see the videos we took of candidates during our summer exp
says that she has been trying to get access of council members and it鈥檚 been hard
we really did make good use of election time
It like the way she thinks will be good to see what she can push from the PB angle
We had a chat about expanding beyond infrastructure, they are trying in small ways. tackling homelessness issue in some dist etc. Will be good to push them on this
also, she is thinking A LOT about how to reach non-digital audiences and use visualizations effectively
that鈥檚 great! they would be excellent facilitation partners鈥e augment their practices.
oh wow! council members in office already or ones that were running?
we should put those up! raw convos, why not鈥ery au. we can say it is raw footage \
dzn 02:05:00
Also, lots of new info from Noel and D&S. let's chat some time
itsmisscs 02:05:28
whenever. can hop on a call if you want to debrief
@itsmisscs back in coffee shop. Can chat whenever
itsmisscs 02:08:01
Yeah, slido bit we knew from Au. I know initially we had asked about different projectors for early ones. I have an extra projector that slido master can add to her kit 馃槈
patcon 02:16:12
Haha who is "slido master"??
dzn 04:11:03
lol. That鈥檚 what Noel titled me last night
dzn 04:13:33
Yeah! Second projector is good! I first thought of the second projector as mostly for transparency but now it seems like it encourages people to engage with slido. Let鈥檚 test next time and see. Also, how cool would it be to have a projector always at hand!!!
katenicholson 2017-12-09 05:09:16
just pair with our politican in your pocket @devin and we鈥檙e set.
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itsmisscs 04:38:48
it鈥檚 not a pico one, but it isn鈥檛 annoying to transport
itsmisscs 04:38:59
pocket projector would be neat though
itsmisscs 04:39:20
yeah, au mentioned it needed to be up so people can engage. thinking back to tictec, it become valuable for me when i could see it
katenicholson 04:41:55
@darshana @itsmisscs been meaning to cross this off my crafts to do list

Popular Science

Turn A Shoe Box Into A Phone Projector [Video]

Buy some new crocs, gain a mini movie theater.

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itsmisscs 04:42:19
ooooo nice!
katenicholson 04:42:59
(though pretty sure quality would be abominable)
devin 05:10:34
@devin has joined the channel
itsmisscs 13:56:31
@darshana very interesting comments from creator of blulu metrics. their reactions to ocf report


Untitled 路 路 Disqus

The web's community of communities now has one central hub.

itsmisscs 16:20:13
For folks joining/planning on joining in on Sunday (@patcon @lizbarry @darshana @devin @katehnicholson) Please feel free to edit the Hackmd post. If you have questions about anything, you can reply to the thread or ask here in slack. Excited to see everyone!

Composites Collective

Second workshop @orbital Sunday December 10

Agenda + Notes <> Attendees (confirmed via Slack) @dzn @patcon @lizbarry Devin B Kate N

itsmisscs 16:27:51
eeee chia hua has a twitter 鉂わ笍

ChiA huA (@chiahua0515) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from ChiA huA (@chiahua0515): "I like my winter dress XD <>"

Just followed!


itsmisscs 07:06:24
@darshana i鈥檓 finally back. alive. 鉂勶笍
itsmisscs 22:51:20
View from backyard


patcon 03:25:37
@patcon set the channel topic: PUBLICLY logged. Daily going ons of g0vnyc project. All welcome! Standup daily 11am ( Resources/Notes: Set your notifications accordingly. We chatter.
lizbarry 05:00:21


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devin 05:10:39
Here's a copy of the AirTable knowledge-base that powers the ReCoLa website:


Airtable: Organize anything you can imagine

Airtable works like a spreadsheet but gives you the power of a database to organize anything. Sign up for free.

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lizbarry 09:14:40
Did anyone give @katehnicholson money for snacks?
patcon 09:18:40
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katenicholson 09:58:12
I鈥檒l send Venmo request for 4 bucks from each of you. Liz what鈥檚 your phone? I got the others.
<tel:336-269-1539|336-269-1539> on venmo i'm Liz-Barry-3
katenicholson 09:58:17
itsmisscs 10:03:53
Such delicious snacks for 4$!!
katenicholson 10:04:56
Oh wait I miscalculated. @darshana how much did we spend in the transaction you made w my cash
The cash transaction was for 8.60
Thanks for paying :)
itsmisscs 10:08:01
All good. Will await the request :) thanks so much snacks++ crew
patcon 12:38:51
yo @katehnicholson @davehackett1 can you dm me a google-friendly email so that I can add you to some a google drive (just some odds and ends: session proposal and a book i scanned). Also, if you're on trello, would be rad to get a username or email that you signed up with, so I can add y'all :tada:
patcon 16:20:53
can someone invite me to the airtable at patrick.c.connolly at the big G one? cc @devin
patcon 16:22:16
also, @darshana @itsmisscs might you have google-friendly emails that you could DM me so that I can specifically invite you to the session doc (it's world editable right now)
lizbarry 23:19:31
morning! i just wrote back a lot of replies in the vnyc-grants-conf channel. and also i think in a DM shared more about Ed Keller's partner Carla Letai (?) who works in VR at Rensellear
ok i just got connected on email to the woman who runs the VR lab at RPI -- does someone who is really into VR and wanting to get us into Holopolis want to get looped in a take lead?


katenicholson 05:45:38
Nice, @lizbarry! Q: Where should meeting pictures and artifacts be uploaded in general?
It's not official yet until I pitch it and we consent, but this proposed trello board has a resources list, in which I have a google drive with some docs we've worked with:

Could add there if it seems like the right place?
katenicholson 2017-12-13 01:22:37
Loveliness. Thanks, I鈥檒l check it out in a bit.
katenicholson 2017-12-13 08:30:42
A thought 鈥 once we have an assortment of facilitation method resources we could have weekly meetings where we each (or in pairs/threes) bring one method to the table and practice on each other鈥 to download everyone quickly on what鈥檚 out there鈥攊n a sort of applied learning exchange. Could help us quickly eliminate and choose methodologies that we want to use / adapt for the toolkit. ** not sure if this is the right place for this comment, if not feel free to copy past somewhere **


patcon 00:30:01
It's not official yet until I pitch it and we consent, but this proposed trello board has a resources list, in which I have a google drive with some docs we've worked with:

Could add there if it seems like the right place?

Trello Task Tracker

Trello is the visual collaboration platform that gives teams perspective on projects. Use Trello to collaborate, communicate and coordinate on all of your projects.

lizbarry 00:36:56
Here's a handdrawn guide "How to have great meetings" that Molly de Blanc illustrated at Public Lab's last Barnraising -- she would be great to loop in with as the "methods toolkit" gets going


Instagram post by Public Lab 鈥 Nov 4, 2017 at 11:04pm UTC

35 Likes, 2 Comments - Public Lab (@publiclab) on Instagram: 鈥淍mollydecible made this amazing #zine on #facilitation at #barnraising2017 at our illustrated guide鈥︹

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lizbarry 00:38:08
let's talk tonight in person about a Taiwan travel plan, ok? @itsmisscs @darshana and we can call in @patcon
I'm down, but hacknight tonight! Pitches at 7:30. Groups convene around 7:40.

Could I call in from there and invite observers to listen in? I don't want to turn this into an onboarding call, so would need to be careful on that, but would be helpful to energising Toronto :) I could bring them up-to-speed in 10 min before calling in?
Or I could just do the call from there, and 7:40 would give me time to join
it's like our travel logistics
it's not planning the awesome stuff we would do, it's figuring out how much we can personally spend and stuff
katenicholson 2017-12-13 01:23:23
Ahh. this sound like so much fun.
I'm willing to call into Toronto in general but jeex i am not going to get on the phone and talk about my personal finance!
like, to get these tickets in a reasonable time frame we're going to have to purchase them before we have any grant money in hand. As a group we need to talk about who has cash to put down, and who doesn't, and if anyone can cover the people who don't. this is not for public broadcast.
i also am 馃檯馃従 to a big public call
this is very specific and related to the group of people that are planning on going on the trip.
@lizbarry Darshana has to leave for an appointment at 7:30. Seems it may not be a good time for 2/4 members. Can we have this wednesday?
Haha ok ok I thought this was bigger scope. I have that group commitment anyhow, so I guess I can't make tonight anyhow. Wednesday gets my vote
ok good idea! i can do more like 8pm on wednesday
patcon 01:15:55
I'm down, but hacknight tonight! Pitches at 7:30. Groups convene around 7:40.

Could I call in from there and invite observers to listen in? I don't want to turn this into an onboarding call, so would need to be careful on that, but would be helpful to energising Toronto :) I could bring them up-to-speed in 10 min before calling in?
itsmisscs 02:58:24
@darshana I believe I have added links to all the areas in the article were photos were marked. I left you one question about the photo in the 鈥淏ack to NYC鈥 section. I still have a couple albums to upload (mglee, fi, claire), but all the photos that support the article are up on flickr now. Feel free to pull stuff that you want, too.
itsmisscs 02:59:34
do you have the link handy to the g0v hackth25n photos?
itsmisscs 03:41:09
<!channel> We鈥檒l be renaming this channel to reflect its purpose as the daily musings for Composites Collective team. Y鈥檃ll are more than welcome to stay. We 鉂わ笍 having y鈥檃ll. #vnyc will be the main channel for lurking on the progress of vnyc initiatives
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itsmisscs 03:49:32
hmmm one does not seem able to rename channels. we can archive and open a new one.
patcon 03:52:50
@itsmisscs Its up to whoever created. One sec
I鈥檒l change!