Month: 2018-11


pm5 00:50:09
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patcon 20:58:16
@kevinphy you going to makerfaire???

Hi! This is Mario from the FOSSASIA/OpnTec community. I had the chance to meet many g0v contributors at events during the last few days and it is always inspiring! I am staying a few days longer in Taiwan to showcase our Open Hardware Pocket Science Lab (PSLab) at the Makerfaire this weekend. We have a few free tickets for the event and we are also looking for volunteers interested to help at the booth. All the info about Makerfaire is here <> Details about PSLab are at <>. Anyone interested to join?

mariobehling 21:06:25
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kevinphy 21:08:09
@patcon Yes! I am gonna show my lamp there too. (I’ll also have a workshop for documentation assistant lamp next week. that’s why it’s crazy week for me….)


yutin 20:18:31
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patcon 16:08:00
@kevinphy heyo! You up to anything tonight?
kevinphy 16:09:42
I’ll give a talk in 三創 tonight
patcon 16:11:48
cool! is it a private thing? mind if i ask the topic?
kevinphy 16:14:45
About the robotic lamp for documentation! Hmmm sort of private. But I think you can come to 11F around 21:30 to 22:00.

I have a chance to promote my open source project and am going to push forward the development with this upcoming interested community.
patcon 16:15:42
ok, i'd love to stop in if i can make it in time :slightly_smiling_face:
patcon 16:15:45
also, congrats! (on the booking)
Bimo 17:03:33
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patcon 17:03:38
Bimo 17:03:56
patcon 17:05:04
<!here> @agoeng.bhimasta just DM'd me. We're bring convo here
patcon 17:05:51
@agoeng.bhimasta graciously agreed to let me post the message, for context:

> hi @patcon
> I am Bimo, a student in National Tsing-Hua University.
> I am also plan to build the rhythm badge and see your progress on making it for your project.
> I tried to order from PBBWay with your Shared Project (, and I am quite confused with several things, especially in the Assembly Pricing.
> So, I tried to order 10 of them and I get $166 for assembly and $348 for the component.
> In your hackmd notes, it appeared that yo got $88 for assembly 5 pieces and $106 for 20 pieces, which for my case, I doesn’t make sense for me to get $166 for 10 pieces.
> Do you think something wrongs here? E.g: the way I order?
> Thank you very much
patcon 17:06:56
ok, so as for the shared project, it's definitely not ready for prime-time, just a demo to test out the formatting of the website. I'm really sorry if you spent too much time trying to figure it out :disappointed:
patcon 17:07:10
I should definitely add a note to warn future folks who fine it
patcon 17:11:12
as for assembly costs, it may be the case that the quote process is very inconsistent. fwiw, i started submitting for 20, and then knocked it down to 10, through the chat feature, and they revised the quote
patcon 17:11:37
i think it's just a messy process, but you could try mentioning the price i got?
Bimo 23:42:13
They said that you might apply for special price.

And they now offer me for 88$ instead of 166$ after mentioning your price.
patcon 23:50:08
haha yeah, i used some words to try to sound like I was ramping up for something bigger, so they probably just auto-applied it
patcon 23:50:15
glad you got it
patcon 17:14:04
also, pls do try to use the files in the repo itself for now. the ones on the project page _should_ be good, but i've done a lot of messing around with formats, trying to get things on the website to "render" correctly. it's possible that my fork differs. pls just doublecheck that your files are the same as the ones in the main repo for the BOM and schematics (unlikely to differ, but i'd hate to be responsible for a misplaced order!)
Bimo 23:38:43
I just compared with the BOM you attached on the PCBWay and from the original Repo. There are little differences

It seems that you have only BAT4 whereas the original repo have BAT1, BAT2, BAT3, BAT4. I’m also pretty sure that we only need 1 instead of 4. @patcon what do you think about it?
patcon 23:53:56
I'm seeing both mine and oren's having just one BAT4:

but i know that exporting directly from eagle gives a few BATs, though not sure why that discrepency. Prob worth asking in an issue, as I was wondering the same
patcon 17:15:32
semi-related, but i'm totally curious:
1. can you share anything about the project that working on?
2. what's your area of study? your research topic?
3. what made you interested in the rhythm badge project?
Bimo 17:18:56
No worries, your note ia big help for me, as I don’t have any knowledge in making such things. :grin:
Bimo 17:19:18
I didn’t try it yet, but I will try to mentioned the price you get, and see their response
Bimo 17:46:43
- I’m not yet starting any project related to this rhythm badge, I am totally new in this, but very curious.

- My area of study is service science, basically we try to improve or create new service through science. One of the area i start to learn are social interaction and the social network analysis, that bring me to the sociometric badge. I think the badge is intereseting in a way that we can expand our creativity in do researches and provide different insights that we might cannot get from using survey or observations.

- I personally want to test the Sociometric badge by humanyze, but it’s very expensive (500$ each) and not include the software. So, I try to find out wether any other similiar products, and one of them is the Rhythm badge. I thought since it’s a open badge, and they said it’s easily replicate, but I think the facts it’s not XD (maybe for people like me who don’t really know about electronic components)

- Our institute, did a lot design thinking workshop, we started to think to bring this badge to measure interactions during the workshop. We will have a design thinking workshop in Indonesia next January and plan to test the badge there. (I am an Indonesian btw). This is the first steps. In the same time, I also want to introduce this kind of badge to other researchers, such how we can use this badge to improve service such as in marketing.

- My rough plan for the next 3 years (subject to change :grin:)
1. Do some testing on rhythm badge for design thinking workshop, and other different setting to get strength and limitation of the badge. As for now, we feel that having the badge first will become a huge leap for us. Other idea is test it on speed dating event.
2. Improve the badge (add more sensors), create some different badge design for different situations (for cost effectivity).
3. Do collaborations with other fields (e.g: marketing) with the badge.
4. Promote the use of the badge on research (We thinking of conducting series of design thinking in different asia countries)
5. Make it more accessible to public to access the badge.
Bimo 17:50:09
Did you order some the badge through PCBWay now?
patcon 18:40:18
oops. forgot to answer. not yet. was hoping to get done today, but looking less likely (but NEED to soon or i won't be able to have them in time for a demo next month :)
patcon 18:12:24
cool! that sounds exciting for you!
patcon 18:12:33
re: working with the badges.
patcon 18:12:46
I'd like to caution that the badges are only half the challenge -- using the hub and analyzing the data are very technical tasks as well. Are you comfortable managing and troubleshooting software build environments, or do you have someone who could support you on that?

These badges are definitely not turn-key like humanyze's :slightly_smiling_face:
Bimo 18:19:56
Haha, yes I know very well aware about that part. I have background in software engineering, so I feel I might able to handle it. In addition, I can also have some professor to help me on it. We also try to form a team for this.
patcon 18:13:15
re: experimental design and service science
patcon 18:20:23
though you can't see my face, I just wanted to say that the following comments are spoken with sincerity and kindness :heart:

i'll be candid, my interest is very much on the participatory side. I am actually pretty cautious of the ethics of using badges like this in a way that doesn't strive to share the insights to _all_ participants involved (ie. those being studied). This data can be used to rob people of autonomy is a way that I can imagine might become pretty dystopian...!

there's a lot of talk of technological ethics lately, and I take that conversation very seriously

I am always prone to be cautious with information that can create power asymmetries, and I have too much respect for this data to not speak up for that perspective :slightly_smiling_face:

but i know that this is an ongoing conversation, and I'm excited to learn more from one another!
patcon 18:25:42
tl;dr - It's in my nature to be collaborative and helpful, but I am unclear how to feel about indirectly contributing to marketing-related research...! but then again, working together on things is the only way we learn about one another's perspectives :slightly_smiling_face:
Bimo 18:37:42
Yeah, can’t agree more with you with ethics part!
Bimo 18:41:17
We might also want to discuss this tackle, we also serious about the ethics part. This is one of my professor work related to ethics:
Bimo 18:48:09
Marketing research is probably one of research areas that still not being touch. Recently, I just found one researcher that use Humanyze badge in service marketing (
patcon 18:55:00
yeah! if you're down to meet people from the #vtaiwan group, who work adjacent to what@kevinphy and I are trying to do, there's an open meeting tonight:
patcon 18:55:15
i'll be a little late, but omw soon
Bimo 19:01:10
I really want to join, but sorry, I’m might not able to catch the bus on time to Taipei.

I will love to join the next meeting :grinning:
patcon 19:01:41
@agoeng.bhimasta you should consider opening an issue in HumanDynamics/openbadge issue queu, and share what you're working on. It might be a good place to ask them questions in public going forward -- I know that Oren is trying to keep things out of private emails lately.
Bimo 19:03:04
Yeah, absolutely will do that in the near future :smile: - I have contacted Oren last time and that’s how I ended up with joining this group today.


patcon 02:49:42
@kevinphy helping me place an order for parts
patcon 02:49:54
hey @kevinphy would you be able to help me place the order this week?

I used this BOM tool to find stock:

Then created a quick spreadsheet for 1ClickBOM, so it can auto-fill a shopping cart:

And so if you copy-paste that into the| browser extension, there'll be a button to add everything to a cart. (One part isn't available thru digikey, and that's can be skipped)
patcon 02:49:58
It comes to just under NT$1000, and I'm happy to meet you somewhere to do it, or pay you later! Sorry to be reliant on you. If you're busy, no pressure :slightly_smiling_face:
patcon 02:51:01
could ship to hackerspace if you think that's a good idea. or even my hostel, or the startup hub where vtaiwan meets
patcon 03:12:45
ugh. USD$10 for $0.77 in parts. ~I'll try to find another on that, but it might be the cost.~ Prob worth ordering a bunch, maybe 500, since it's the limiting part.


Shawn 09:43:32
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patcon 21:18:53
Just wanted to share @imyentsen's research plan for his thesis, which seems relevant :)

Yentsen Liu

Interface/ Empowerment/ Democracy Design Portfolio by Yentsen Liu

Ansin Law 21:34:16
Thanks @patcon ! Hello @cttm4a1
Ansin Law 21:40:30
What project or research are you working on?


patcon 16:13:21
Just to update outside DM: @kevinphy and I will be ordering parts &amp; boards for 15 rhythm badges at Taipei Hacker space tomorrow at 9pm. We'll document, or anyone is welcome to drop by if they want to learn how it's done in person :tada:


patcon 21:01:09
@kevinphy omw. At hacker space for 9:30
kevinphy 21:35:26
I am here now. Take your time!
patcon 21:36:16
Walking from bike :)
patcon 23:55:35

OK, <@U04537GEE> and I just ordered the parts and boards for building 10 <#CDB9WDRH6|social-physics> rhythm badges!! woooo!

patcon 23:57:39
@imyentsen re: english| convos.

RightsCon 2018

<|> for RightsCon 2018

patcon 23:58:13


How do you think Canada’s democracy should work? D’après vous, comment la démocratie du Canada devrait-elle fonctionner?


Ansin Law 00:05:43
Thank you @patcon!
patcon 02:36:49
@kevinphy heard back from digikey, and they confirmed that you were not a scammer and the stuff is on its waaaaay! Confirmed that should be here from Michigan in a few days. They couldn't say what the import fees would be though

Omg I hope these trade war tariffs don't apply to taiwan :/
kevinphy 02:58:54
Michigan LOL

Anyway.. Awesome!
kevinphy 03:00:57
I cannot find the confirmed information on Digikey (under your account)
patcon 03:34:19
Weird. Well, they said on the phone that it was in its way. And a real non-robot woman told me that, so it must be true
patcon 03:34:21
kevinphy 11:21:28
Could be fake phone?!
kevinphy 11:22:07
My card is still not issued.
patcon 15:52:52
@agoeng.bhimasta you busy tonight?
Bimo 15:54:15
Hi @patcon, not really, wanna meetup?
patcon 15:55:40
you should come to the weekly #vtaiwan meetup tonight and meet people :slightly_smiling_face:
Bimo 16:00:03
wow, okey, let me catch the bus now! :+1:, see you there
patcon 16:05:40
wooo. if you have a sec, sign up on kktix so we can order to right amount of pizza :pizza:
Bimo 16:07:18
allenlinli 21:04:18
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wellsonjain 21:04:41
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patcon 21:09:06
book by ben waber that @agoeng.bhimasta read first:

People Analytics: How Social Sensing Technology Will Transform Business and What It Tells Us about the Future of Work (FT Press Analytics)

Discover powerful hidden social "levers" and networks within your company… then, use that knowledge to make slight "tweaks" that dramatically improve both business performance and employee fulfillment! In People Analytics, MIT Media Lab innovator Ben Waber shows how sensors and analytics c...

Bimo 21:09:44
This also different group of researcher that interesting to worth to check and read

A research project that aims to uncover fundamental patterns in social dynamics and coordinated human activity through a data-driven approach.

allenlinli 21:14:51
I found a book in Chinese

[書摘] 數位麵包屑裡的各種好主意:社會物理學 - 剖析意念傳播方式的新科學 « I try | MarsW

博客來link MIT Human Dynamics Laboratory 主任,Alex Sandy Pentland 在本書提倡的新科學「社會物理學」,利用電子裝置進行大規模實地實驗室,...

patcon 21:30:34
hub proximity examples:



Contribute to HumanDynamics/openbadge-analysis-examples development by creating an account on GitHub.

patcon 21:35:44
doing an audit of all the related projects here:


Rename project with consistent rhythm namespace · Issue #114 · HumanDynamics/openbadge

Oren mentioned that a rename of the project was overdue: #109 (comment) Ok, so doing a quick inventory. random note: website is <> Name Proposed Name Descripti...

Bimo 21:41:31
Social Physics Book
Social Physics - How Social Network Can make us Smarter.pdf


jc 01:07:28
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patcon 17:01:00
Interesting paper on badge ecosystem:

Sci-Hub: устраняя преграды на пути распространения знаний

Первый в мире пиратский ресурс, который открыл массовый доступ к десяткам миллионов научных статей


Bimo 19:08:22
@patcon, did PBCA sent you couple of email during the assembly process, whether they did it correctly?
patcon 19:44:35
We just ordered parts and boards, not assembly, and we're still waiting for them being shipping after some identity are later confusion (using my name/email and @kevinphy's credit card seems to have been a mistake)

Still waiting for Hong Kong to ship, I think :)
Bimo 19:58:30
Oh, I thought that beside building yourself, you also build a few from them
Bimo 19:59:20
They regularly send me an email asking whether did the solder correctly, and also the cathode is going the right direction
Bimo 20:00:22
the arrow point of cathode
Bimo 20:00:40
asking if this one is soldered correctly
patcon 20:11:46
What if we start a github issue explaining the situation, and see if Oren and team can post some high-dif photos for situations like that? I feel like send them a high-defintion photo of an assembled one will eliminate the back-and-forth
patcon 20:14:19
The bottom note about "tombstoning" might be helpful for you:
Bimo 23:14:17
I think, Oren and teams should updated their the assembled one with the newest version, so we can easily validate the badge we working on with his final badge
Bimo 23:14:27
I just create new issue on github about it
Bimo 23:15:10
I don’t think this is a tombstoning issues, it’s more about it’s the direction of the components are corrects
Bimo 23:16:02
like for the switch, we can also solder it reverse position
patcon 19:44:39
You having issue?
Bimo 23:14:17
I think, Oren and teams should updated their the assembled one with the newest version, so we can easily validate the badge we working on with his final badge


patcon 19:17:44
Parts for rhythm badge arriving tomorrow!


patcon 23:08:29
Thanks for ordering/receiving @kevinphy!!
patcon 23:09:21
Also, I'll be writing the first draft of my interview report due this week, so I think I have to wait until next week to really dive in..! :(((


patcon 22:54:56
@kevinphy you going to be at hacker space over the weekend? Or this Friday? Or next Tues? Haha baaaasically any day after I pass in this draft report
patcon 22:57:45
kevinphy 23:05:00
next tues
patcon 23:54:38
cool, I can be there for 6pm, or whenever works for you