books

Kai 2021-07-05 10:37:44

Woah, love the range of topics covered in the notes. And the fact that there are call notes in the first place.

I'll be at this week's Thurs 8pm.

Kai 2021-07-05 11:10:36

Re: MSfM part 2 — Much of Frankl's logotherapy feels status quo in 2021. Perhaps it has already been absorbed into mainstream culture (though "meaning" and "happiness" are often conflated)? In any case, we've come a long way from Darwin, Hobbs, Freud, Skinner.

A constellation of adjacent ideas:

1/ IMO, Frankl's meaning derives much strength from the extreme suffering of his Holocaust experiences. Yet I get the impression that the link between suffering and meaning is glossed over when trying to generalize his ideas. Does meaning scale in proportion to hardship?

2/ If too much comfort and too much emotional safety, leads to a lessened ability to feel meaning? Hard to isolate this against all the other modern factors that potentially dampen meaning, but it's an interesting angle to explore.

3/ Sebastian Junger's "Tribe" is another instance of the same class of epiphany — taking US soldiers in Afghanistan as its vehicle. The "human animal" craves meaning, and derives it from some pretty basic conditions (belonging to and relying on a group, etc). But these conditions are actually hard to sustain in modern life.

Cameron Chow 2021-07-07 10:53:44

Thanks for the above Kai, I feel (in an r/unpopularopinion type way), that the guidance feels trite for want of a better word? While also not wanting to be disrespectful to both the experiences and the historical significance of the book itself. The conflation of meaning and happiness is a common pitfall for me at least, and I haven't spent a huge amount of time on either in my life 😃

1. Jumping onto your 1) I wonder whether Frankl's conclusions gain a huge amount of gravitas from his experience - specifically a halo effect or credibility. I put this in contrast to a different, more contemporary 'advice' book that might have said similar words but the writer certainly did not carry such weight or historical significance, and this prevented me from taking in the advice fully - I _did_ care who the messenger was. (And if this is the case, so what?)
2. I thought Frankl's point about not pursuing something you want directly as "A forced intention makes impossible what one forcibly wishes" (hyper-intention) - is probably one of the more interesting insights I noted from part 2. This vaguely maps to my experience (see also "the pursuit of happiness"), I'm curious what the takeaway would be.
3. Some of the internal voice I brought in as I read part 2 of the book, was also along the lines of "Think positively" - reminding me of The Magic of Thinking Big (which I loved from way back). It felt optimistic and uplifting to read and is a message that I appreciate the reminder of, and I wonder if the internal shift (for modern life) really is _that_ simple. "YOU CAN DO IT and LIFE IS AMAZING (Gratitude essentially)" being a clear 80/20 or even 90/10 dose for an effective outcome for most humans.