neo-x

Month: 2020-03

2020-03-20

@U0109DFEK0C 19:52:49
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@U0109DFEK0C 19:52:49
@ set the channel purpose: Neo-Economy and Neo-Democracy
@U010DV23YRE 19:52:57
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@U0109DFEK0C 19:53:14
I think it would be better to take the communicatio here
@U010DV23YRE 19:53:19
cool
@U0109DFEK0C 19:53:24
so we can later share it with others as well
@U0109DFEK0C 19:54:19
in my opinion we shall focus on a solid item and not generalize too much
@U010DV23YRE 19:55:56
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1809.06421.pdf this paper from the head of research at microsoft and the creator of ethereum crypto-currency proposes decentralized ecosystem of public goods.
@U0109DFEK0C 20:57:02
I was reading about radical markets, it is interesting concept and I wished I knew about it earlier. Anyway its never late.
@U0109DFEK0C 20:58:07
are there any implementation or initiatives ?
@U0109DFEK0C 21:03:31
*Team code is eZp1B2cvo*
@U0109DFEK0C 21:05:23
I think we can do a light implementation
@U0109DFEK0C 21:11:55
if we bind vote buying to a new value mapping (to be discovered) then we can have a case to test. authority, awareness creation would be our main challenges
@U010DV23YRE 21:37:00
radical market is quite new, but it starts to spread worldwide. the 2020 conference planned radicalXchange was planned for june but will happen online https://www.radicalxchange.org/2020-conference/

RadicalxChange

2020 Conference – RadicalxChange

@U0109DFEK0C 21:41:43
Maybe during this hackaton we can get some attention or opinion from these guys.
@U010DV23YRE 21:40:45
some implementation experiences have been deployed, they talk about that in the book or in the liberal radicalism paper, I don't remember. I wrote an article on the future of democracy in august, https://medium.com/@julien.carbonnell/civil-society-futures-of-citizenship-and-democracy-through-digital-era-24e28c27276?source=friends_link&sk=d660e330a6532703a11f20ce5cef6a2b , syntetizing it, but I'm actually read a lot of stuff for my thesis .

Medium

CIVIL SOCIETY: Futures of Citizenship and Democracy through Digital Perspective

In pursuing my research of a frame to ease all stakeholders participation in decision-making on the future of their cities, I present in…

@U01036GMT0T 21:41:21
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@U010DV23YRE 21:42:20
as far as I know, https://www.startupsocieties.org/ are the most active foundation working on these subjects, I can invite one of the co-founders to join us this weekend

startupsocieties.org

Startup Societies Foundation - Home

Don't argue. Build.

@U010DV23YRE 21:44:23
one of them worked on the concept of a new hanseatic league as well https://www.facebook.com/groups/600894810085005/ it's inspired by a free business agreement of merchants at the end of the middle age in northern european sea which set the basis of the capitalist economy out of a state regulation

Facebook

Log into Facebook | Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

@U0109DFEK0C 21:50:56
team code is *eZp1B2cvo*
@UVAJ9P82E 22:00:25
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@U0109DFEK0C 22:05:35
the event is officially on
@U0109DFEK0C 22:06:53
The submissions will be evaluated based on the following criteria: *innovativeness*, *feasibility*, *viability* and *possible impact* on the society. Remember that in this hackathon, we are looking for stuff that *can actually be useful*, either in saving lives, saving communities or saving businesses. Focus on *solving the problem*, the business model is not too important at this point.
@U0109DFEK0C 22:07:45
Welcome @ and @ :slightly_smiling_face:
@UVAJ9P82E 22:09:51
Hey folks! I find this topic amazingly interesting. I myself am worried about our humankind for the long-term.

*Background*: startups, VCs, impact investing. "entrepreneurial mindset"
*What I am doing now*: investing to early-stage startups shaping tomorrow at Wave Ventures, heading Kairos Society (global community for young entrepeneurs) in Finland, studying chemical engineering and energy systems, learning about climate change. https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauliinameskanen/ http://www.twitter.com/MeskanenP|www.twitter.com/MeskanenP

I have couple of excellent friends that are researching this topic. Will connect them. I am also having a flu, so am happy to contribute with the limits of my well-being:blush:
@U0109DFEK0C 22:12:10
Super! and thanks for offering introductions et contribution. Julien and I have met couple of hours ago within this platform.
@UVAJ9P82E 22:12:51
Perfect!
@U0109DFEK0C 22:18:04
We shall prepare for the submission by midnight tonight. It can be changed but it needs a two minute video.
@U0101TM9A2F 22:18:49
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@U0109DFEK0C 22:19:19
The vision I guess is clear, out of experience,, just a vision is not enough and we need to have a solid plan and execute something withing the next 40 something horus
@U0109DFEK0C 22:19:52
Welcome @
@U010DV23YRE 22:23:37
Hello @ and @ nice to meet you
I proposed @ to join us, he seemed interested by our idea
@U0109DFEK0C 22:25:05
What do you think about building a prototype?
@U0101TM9A2F 22:28:06
Define prototype format
@U0109DFEK0C 22:42:31
very basic implementation of a voting system ( https://arxiv.org/pdf/1809.06421.pdf ) and mapping of its value to a to be determined new economy model
@U0109DFEK0C 23:00:05
@ bettermeans was interesting and can give a visual representation
@U010DV23YRE 23:00:40
ah OK great
@U010DV23YRE 23:00:59
I can publish it again
i thought it was out of topic
@U0109DFEK0C 23:01:42
its a bit old stuff but if there is anything we can showcase as part of the prototype,, why not
@U0101TM9A2F 22:29:10
Problem of your concept of is that is "general", people at this point would want to see in which practical field it can be applied
@U0101TM9A2F 22:29:35
this internet chat is also very limited media to iterate ideas
@U0101TM9A2F 22:29:44
words are limited, but pictures and videos tell more
@U010DV23YRE 22:29:47
thanks for the presentation @ we can maybe start with this

*Background:* Real estate development in private company, Urban and social innovation through startups and civil society associations
*What I am doing now:* writing a PhD thesis in urban science on the topic "Multiple stakeholder engagement in Smart-City"
*Skills:* project owner, business developement, sales, social network automation, some marketing. I especially have a large network on civic technology worldwide: taiwan, USA, europe and France ++

you can add me on linkedin as well https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliencarbonnell/
@U0109DFEK0C 22:31:17

Lets build a list of most faced problems for businesses. That would shape solution finding.

@U0109DFEK0C 22:31:27
you are right @
@U0109DFEK0C 22:31:50
yesterday the discussion on the other channel was on actual action items that can be done
@U0109DFEK0C 22:32:08
then the discussion evolved into root of the problem
@U0101TM9A2F 22:34:20
Yes
@U0109DFEK0C 22:35:00
pain killers are good for a period of time. theories exist but practicalities dont. I think as part of this hackaton it would be good to test how this can be done and learn from the process
@U0101TM9A2F 22:37:21
Start from practical "daily level". What we really need when we wake up? Dont go too much into details.
Do flow chart + add it to local distribution of resources, that can become low related to this corona case
@U0101TM9A2F 22:37:55
Corona case is not only about getting sick, its about trafficking of food, etc.
@U010DV23YRE 22:39:40
yes this is why we started to talk of the whole economy and democracy process, because this crisis is a means to the end => how do we use tech to restructure the exchanges between peoples
@U0101TM9A2F 22:39:55
Also our capacity maintain order in society can be threatened or challenged. What are essential nearby groups that can help each other in levels of food delivery/production? etc,
@U0101TM9A2F 22:42:30
Yes Julien. I understand "philosophical" or culturally herited level of behaviour ongoing X hundred years.

Imperialism and globalization are not different and it had caused blindspots to humanity. So localization is key at some point, but big players like companies or politics dont see that as issue to be solved.

So defining "your goal" here, is what:
1. what is problem
2. what can be solved quickly (define time range etc)
3. how it benefits people in time of crisis, and afterwards
Write answers, draw pics and charts possibly related to this to structure your solution into practical level. Academics dont help much, if people cant take instantly solutions from "pool"/app/educational system.

One simple new habit can have big change in world, if its marketed clearly and striking into peoples souls?
@U0109DFEK0C 22:44:11
it would be great if you can elaborate on the problem items
@U0101TM9A2F 22:45:20
Page 8 is interesting
@U0101TM9A2F 22:46:24
Your core should rely there. In modern world so heavily depending on capitalist mindset, people tend to scare ideological talk, because its academic.

In Finland there been talk about "selkokieli", meaning things need to be clear and common words for people
@U0101TM9A2F 22:46:50
Saying these because I spot problem points that I have met before by being too academic or complex
@U0101TM9A2F 22:46:54
but page 8 is clear
@U0101TM9A2F 22:46:57
and practical
@U0109DFEK0C 22:48:08
good comments man :+1:
@U0109DFEK0C 22:51:27
there is yet another philosophical issue here. :joy:

I noticed the note of "Your" "Your idea",... . this is to be changed to "Our". At the of the day its "Our planet" and we are in this all together...
@U0101TM9A2F 22:55:59
dont stuck into words, I just write fast
@U0101TM9A2F 22:36:11
But ideology of present is very hard to change, so we need to :
1. recognize local ranged production capacity, food, medical devices, manufacturing devices
2. shortening supply chains from global range to more local range (this issue is related to climate)
3. spotting and admitting somethings are more essential then others, we cannot be "peacocks" anymore
@U010DV23YRE 22:44:40
as for first implementation of a useful tool for both economy and decision-making inside and inter- communities, out of state regulations, I proposed to start working on a voting app.

we can maybe extent it to a platform which help groups of people decide by consensus the value of a good and a service, then to list the tasks needed to obtain it, and so decide by consensus how to spread the value between them in regard of what everyone have achieved
@U0101TM9A2F 23:14:14
Voting process in this corona case is very academic
@U0101TM9A2F 23:14:22
most people understand essentials
@U0101TM9A2F 23:14:50
but democractic system dosent have access to resources in present society, because of scale of privatization
@U0101TM9A2F 23:15:08
Dont go into this problem "ideological flag" in front, unless its pragmatic solution?
@U010DV23YRE 22:54:40
@ so what would be your idea to develop this weekend ?
and what are your concrete skills ?
@U010DV23YRE 23:04:12
this video gives a concrete tour of the open source bettermeans platform
it can give some UX design ideas and inspire a prototype app
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wJAf229YUs

YouTube

Bettermeans 9 minute tour

@U0101TM9A2F 23:16:11
You need to simplify your voting system. Too much of detailing makes people lose interest, because of short "attention span"
@U0101TM9A2F 23:16:34
just saying these because, last autumn hackathon I faced same issues
@U010DV23YRE 23:20:00
@ ok you give good advices and seems to have experience
but I still do not know what you want to do this weekend.
Do you want to join our team ?
What do you propose to do concretely ?
to advice teams you should better register on the mentorship channel
@U0101TM9A2F 23:22:26
Im trying to clear my thoughts now with writing and sketching
@U0101TM9A2F 23:22:35
narrow down to essentials
@U0101TM9A2F 23:22:38
too much data
@U0101TM9A2F 23:22:45
I inform you later
@U01092Z1EUQ 23:46:25
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@U010CQXQK6Z 23:50:20
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@U01092Z1EUQ 23:51:50
@ well can you share any good up-to-date open source solution for ivoting ?
Right now I don't know any open-source voting systems.
@U010DV23YRE 23:52:06
ok
@U010CQXQK6Z 23:52:36
Ok I just joined to see what is happening here, can someone explain is short what your idea is it like implementation of liquid democracy?
@U010DV23YRE 00:03:59
sort of but we are rather on quadratic voting than liquid democracy
@U010DV23YRE 00:05:58
and we would like to integrate a crypto solution to make the whole sustainable

we are not democracy-only concerned
@U010CQXQK6Z 00:09:16
How would those two worlds work together? I have been a big fan of e -voting systems, but cant really see how these ideas could be merged
@U010DV23YRE 00:10:27
quadratic voting is interesting because the voting system is leaned on credits which you have by default and you can by some more. The more you buy credits the more they are expensives, so it makes a good investment to influence votes only if you are really concerned by an issue. so there is an economic layer intertwined with the decision-making one
@U010DV23YRE 00:11:42
quadratic voting has been tried already, I read some academic paper talking about implementations
they may have some prototypes available somewhere
@U01092Z1EUQ 23:53:11
But one of the proposed solution with end-to-end verifiable scheme can be found here https://arxiv.org/pdf/1412.7358.pdf
@U01092Z1EUQ 23:56:40
At the same time one open-source voting system will be published in the summer, after I finish my bachelor thesis :smile:

2020-03-21

@U010DV23YRE 00:03:32
*https://app.slack.com/team/U010C3S9BNC|Roosa*  https://hackthecrisisfinland.slack.com/archives/D010F2KR8UV/p1584720062007700|[18 h 01]
What is written there sounds really cool! I could contribute with the visual design, graphics, thoughts on sustainability and systems thinking. Also good to think about the possible adaptability and scalability for future reference:thinking_face: I did some studies on post disaster social cohesion last year.

What would be the deliverables of the weekend? Do you still have space in the team?
@U010C3S9BNC 00:05:28
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@U010DV23YRE 00:07:29
@ the deliverables of the weekend would be a brand name and graphic chart, a slide deck and pitch story, and some prototype app or web platform
@U010C3S9BNC 00:12:39
Nice, sounds clear:blush:
@U010C3S9BNC 00:11:27
Hey everyone, nice to meet you! If okay, it would be great to join this hack:blush::raised_hands::skin-tone-2: I have a design background and work experience in that field, now finishing my MA in sustainability. First timer in an hackathon event like this though! ( but did slush and other short time effort events some time back)
@U010C3S9BNC 00:12:01
Whats the plan for the next hours? Till first DL?
@U010DV23YRE 00:12:35
@ sure you are welcome, the other team mate @ moved for some minutes, he will come back later
@U010DV23YRE 00:13:01
till first dead line we should improve the slide deck to make it more visible
@U010C3S9BNC 00:27:52
got it open, looking good! Will add comments straight to doc if thoughts on content? While waiting the call & more info :slightly_smiling_face:
@U010DV23YRE 00:16:43
we should define a name and a baseline too
@U010DV23YRE 00:17:47
I proposed Democracy Studio "The next political regime for decentralized communities"
@U010DV23YRE 00:18:28
but it is a solution only, we can surely make it better or switch on another idea
@U010DV23YRE 00:20:01
@ would you like to make a call in hangout or whatsapp ?
@U010C3S9BNC 00:23:31
Yes lets do a call in 5 min? I think it should be possible also through slack is everyone is using the desktop version no?
@U010DV23YRE 00:26:46
haaaa I do not know who group calls work on slack but yes, better to group the apps used
if you can do it, please start the call and others will join
@U0103N068TD 00:23:35
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@U010DV23YRE 00:28:08
@ hello Lina,
welcome

how did you heard about our channel ?
do you know what project we are working on ?

what's your skills / experience for this weekend ?
@U0103N068TD 00:33:12
Hi Julien! I am figuring our slack channels here! I don't know if this is a formed team idea or not. Having a look around! I am a multidisciplinary designer: Branding, Visual Identity & Communication, UX/UI Design, Service Design, Design Thinking & Strategy.
@U0109DFEK0C 00:35:48
Hi Lina & welcome. It is in forming stage and its diverse with lots of different opinions (like our real world) :star-struck:
@U0103N068TD 00:37:25
Thank you @
@U010DV23YRE 00:37:09
ok yes we are a team of 3 confirmed with complementary skills in :
• IT architect
• business dev & marketing automation
• graphic designer
@U010DV23YRE 00:38:46
maybe now it would be the right time to open a call channel @ @ and the others can join us to talk
@U0102EHH5KL 00:43:12
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@U010DV23YRE 00:46:40
does this precise objective "*Develop a solution which helps remote people to take communal decisions on goods and services to share during the crisis and afterward*" makes sense for you ?
@U010DV23YRE 00:50:21
@ welcome on our channel
what attracted you here ?

Would you like to join our team ?
What are your skills / experience to bring ?
@U0102EHH5KL 01:00:20
Hi, I'm a network and IT security specialist , in addition I'v worked with Banking and Financial infrastructure systems and would like to know more about your idea
@U010DV23YRE 01:14:19
@ ok thanks for your interest
One of our team member is experienced IT architect, with experience in the banking system, so I sadly think that it will create a double skill in our team
for the moment we are looking for one full tack dev and a movie maker
@U0103N068TD 01:32:39
I am working on a 'community' themed project related to psych-social support you can follow the conversation a #save_communities
@U010BFQ8KB8 01:40:19
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@U010BFQ8KB8 01:40:55
Hi! There could be some common interests with #futuresocietynow ... you can also check out the video https://vimeo.com/399196206

Vimeo

fsn

@U010DV23YRE 01:45:20
@ thanks for sharing
are they part of this hackathon ?
@U010BFQ8KB8 01:48:03
yes here in this channel #futuresocietynow
@U010BFQ8KB8 01:53:36
we want to validate this idea and get as many good partners as possible
@U010HLUF3CN 02:03:57
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@U010DV23YRE 02:06:55
@ welcome
how are you doing ?
what kind of mentorship would you like to provide us ?
@U010HLUF3CN 02:08:47
Thank you! I am here to help in anyway I can. Been working within the finance industry for a loooooong time and founded the Fintech Enfuce a couple of years ago. So anything regarding regualtion, data, payments, consent etc. Just joind in so getting upto speed with everything! Great to be here. So probably here, strong authentication of remote persons, data sharing, GDPR etc
@U0109DFEK0C 02:10:14
Welcome. I know about the My Carbon Action project of Enfuce :+1:
@U010DV23YRE 02:10:43
ok cool
are you familiar with the Quadratic Voting system ?
here is an article who explains the concept
https://www.forbes.com/sites/shermanlee/2018/05/30/quadratic-voting-a-new-way-to-govern-blockchains-for-enterprises/#7926c9d96ef8

Forbes

Quadratic Voting: A New Way to Govern Blockchains for Enterprises

There is much to be understood in tradeoffs between the trustful distributed systems that underlie much of the systems today, and the trustless decentralized networks many blockchain entrepreneurs believe will be the bedrock for future applications.

@U010HLUF3CN 02:16:21
no, was not familiar but read the article now. The key is the KYC process, meaning to onboard to the “system” and get strongly authenticated
@U010DV23YRE 02:29:42
yes the authentification is a bid need but there are solutions based on full name + photography + identity card validation to register on the system
@U01092Z1EUQ 02:35:33
Additionally it is important to decide how the so called "credits" are distributed among users/voters. Because this will determine the technologies required for this idea.
@U010DV23YRE 02:52:59
every person starts with a fixed number of tokens, and spread it on the decisions he/she prefers the most

so a set of token can be credited on the account each time a new decision with options is filled on the platform

this means token credits are attached to the verified profile accounts and no one can create more than 1 account with a picture and identity card + full name
@U0101M1FYMQ 03:47:57
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Glen Weyl 05:22:43
@glen has joined the channel
Slackbot 05:22:45
This channel’s now shared between *Hack the Crisis Finland* and *g0v*. It works just like any other channel, except better — because here, there are two teams working together.
Glen Weyl 05:23:34
Hi happy to tyr to help a bit tomorreo!
Glen Weyl 05:24:06
More on QV here: https://vitalik.ca/general/2019/12/07/quadratic.html

vitalik.ca

Quadratic Payments: A Primer

Special thanks to Karl Floersch and Jinglan Wang for feedback

@U010DV23YRE 05:25:55
ah awesome
how is that possible that you have the g0v logo on your profile ?
Glen Weyl 05:26:18
um, not exactly sure
Glen Weyl 05:26:22
I don't use slack that much
Glen Weyl 05:26:30
but I use it to interact with g0v people
@U010DV23YRE 05:27:03
ok maybe you were on their slack too and the app reminds me that we are both on the both slacks
ok whatever
good to hear you :slightly_smiling_face:
@U0101TM9A2F 06:11:56
Proceeding...?
Glen Weyl 20:45:00
hi all I am here to help when you need me
@U010DV23YRE 20:53:41
@glen hello glen, sure
give us some min to make a point and we come back to you asap

2020-03-22

@U010G624KK9 16:02:45
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